Chinese (or other country) sai/parrying weapon

spiral · 11th October 2014, 06:56 PM

Id guess these may be the weapons the Brits banned in Hong Kong & Shanghai as fighting irons?

It would be fascinating to see old photos of them in situ!

Given the mostly primitive black smithing structure of them Id guess we would have to assume there many fakes out there. Especially from China?

Ive heard hearsay of some being made & sold from Cornwall 20 to 30 years ago, by a fellow who collected & traded authentic Japanese swords....

spiral

Timo Nieminen · 12th October 2014, 02:12 AM

The various potential "fighting irons" are:

1. Iron ruler (鐵尺 (traditional), 铁尺 (simplified) , Pinyin tiě chǐ). Short iron bar, with or without distinct grip, with or without guard.

2. Jian (usually translated as "mace", 鐧 (traditional), 锏 (simplified), Pinyin jiǎn). Not the same character as jian "sword", which is 劍 (traditional), 剑 (simplified), Pinyin jiàn. Sword length (short sword) rather than dagger length.

3. Bian ("whip", 鞭, Pinyin biān). Apparently distinguished from jian by having a knobbed or segmented shape. Also "hard whip", to distinguish it from jointed metal whips (also bian) and flexible soft whips.

Jian and bian are often called "swordbreakers" in English. They appear in the Ming classic, The Water Margin, as weapons used by some of the heroes. Traditionally used in pairs.

At least some jian/bian are training devices, rather than weapons per se. If they're very heavy, or cast iron: probably trainers.

Some antique and modern examples shown in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16220

Some more examples, some with scabbards:
Pair of tie chi: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2499
Jian:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2004
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2280
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2463
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1704
Long jian: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3624
Bian: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=4309

There were also long two-handed jian, like the long one above, but with longer grips.

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11th October 2014, 06:56 PM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Id guess these may be the weapons the Brits banned in Hong Kong & Shanghai as fighting irons? It would be fascinating to see old photos of them in situ! Given the mostly primitive black smithing structure of them Id guess we would have to assume there many fakes out there. Especially from China? Ive heard hearsay of some being made & sold from Cornwall 20 to 30 years ago, by a fellow who collected & traded authentic Japanese swords.... spiral

12th October 2014, 02:12 AM	#2
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	The various potential "fighting irons" are: 1. Iron ruler (鐵尺 (traditional), 铁尺 (simplified) , Pinyin tiě chǐ). Short iron bar, with or without distinct grip, with or without guard. 2. Jian (usually translated as "mace", 鐧 (traditional), 锏 (simplified), Pinyin jiǎn). Not the same character as jian "sword", which is 劍 (traditional), 剑 (simplified), Pinyin jiàn. Sword length (short sword) rather than dagger length. 3. Bian ("whip", 鞭, Pinyin biān). Apparently distinguished from jian by having a knobbed or segmented shape. Also "hard whip", to distinguish it from jointed metal whips (also bian) and flexible soft whips. Jian and bian are often called "swordbreakers" in English. They appear in the Ming classic, The Water Margin, as weapons used by some of the heroes. Traditionally used in pairs. At least some jian/bian are training devices, rather than weapons per se. If they're very heavy, or cast iron: probably trainers. Some antique and modern examples shown in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16220 Some more examples, some with scabbards: Pair of tie chi: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2499 Jian: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2004 http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2280 http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2463 http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1704 Long jian: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3624 Bian: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=4309 There were also long two-handed jian, like the long one above, but with longer grips.