Pair of knives

[Andrew]

These are Thai. Recently made. Similar knives (of typically better quality) are made in Aranyik.

[carlos]

I had one like this, a present from a friend that visited Thailand
carlos

[ausjulius]

chinese mong (h'mong... why hwy is there a h,, nobody probnounces this "h" in any languages and they are called mong... if your french please tell me why!! )

form thailand have mong people form china they make these knives with the multiple fullers, mong in lao for example dont..

[blue lander]

Oh yeah, it does look like a hmong friendship knife. I've never seen them in a pair like this or in a leather scabbard

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by blue lander

Oh yeah, it does look like a hmong friendship knife. I've never seen them in a pair like this or in a leather scabbard

Interesting Blue Lander, I've never heard them called a Hmong Friendship knife....I should ask some of my Hmong friends about this though they may not know much about the history of a common tool like this...probably have to ask their grandparents....

I remember one Hmong friend in college who was having bad dreams though....according to Hmong traditional beliefs her grandmother gave her a hmong knife to put under her pillow for protection from the bad dreams...I don't remember hearing if it worked, but we teased her saying no one should ever try to wake her up at night for the possibility of getting stabbed!

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by ausjulius

chinese mong (h'mong... why hwy is there a h,, nobody probnounces this "h" in any languages and they are called mong... if your french please tell me why!! )

form thailand have mong people form china they make these knives with the multiple fullers, mong in lao for example dont..

I agree...ausjulius...you do see the blades out of Yunnan with multi- fullers like this...and not just Hmong but other groups...must be a regional influence.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Andrew

These are Thai. Recently made. Similar knives (of typically better quality) are made in Aranyik.

hi actually they dont make any mong or meo knive sin aranyik maybe some wholesalers in the village may have some eneps form north thailand or something some time. but they never stock any non thai stuff.

you can maybe find stuff like these on the thai knife fourms or gun forums some time...

about the chinese influence.. yes its 100% chinese influence.. and in fact chinese them selves historically used such a blade shape, considering meo and mong and many other asian tribal people came from central east china and spread out in the last 1000nd years or so im sure there was a lot of exchanges in knife making..
these chinese influenced blades show up with mong and meo from china and you can find them with very long blades ive seem some in chinese forums with blades more like chinses sabres!...
the fact that older immigrant groups in this area of asia of mong and meo dont really make their blades with fulling or with pin inlay like these, so i can speculate that either it is a style that some specific tribes of meo made or its just that they recently .. in the last 50 years adopted some chinese styles.. or can be another reason.. maybe mong and meo made these styles in their homelands in wht is now china and the others changed their styles when they arrived in new lands and these new arrivals kept the blade decorating styles..

[blue lander]

The rivets used in the sheath don't look like they could be more than ~50 years old so they must be pretty modern . Post WW2 at the very least.

The seller is in France if that helps narrow down the time frame. Perhaps its from the era of their colonial involvement over there.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by blue lander

The rivets used in the sheath don't look like they could be more than ~50 years old so they must be pretty modern . Post WW2 at the very least.

The seller is in France if that helps narrow down the time frame. Perhaps its from the era of their colonial involvement over there.

no the sheath.
the knvies we are discussing...

the sheaths like this are a product of vietnam war or after that time.. nothing about anything traditional.. and they dont carry the knives like this either they will use a wooden sheath.. sheath and the knife can be made yesterday, its irrelevant it is the blade marking and construction that is to contemplate..

[blue lander]

Do you believe the knives are older than the sheath?

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by ausjulius

hi actually they dont make any mong or meo knive sin aranyik maybe some wholesalers in the village may have some eneps form north thailand or something some time. but they never stock any non thai stuff.

you can maybe find stuff like these on the thai knife fourms or gun forums some time...

about the chinese influence.. yes its 100% chinese influence.. and in fact chinese them selves historically used such a blade shape, considering meo and mong and many other asian tribal people came from central east china and spread out in the last 1000nd years or so im sure there was a lot of exchanges in knife making..
these chinese influenced blades show up with mong and meo from china and you can find them with very long blades ive seem some in chinese forums with blades more like chinses sabres!...
the fact that older immigrant groups in this area of asia of mong and meo dont really make their blades with fulling or with pin inlay like these, so i can speculate that either it is a style that some specific tribes of meo made or its just that they recently .. in the last 50 years adopted some chinese styles.. or can be another reason.. maybe mong and meo made these styles in their homelands in wht is now china and the others changed their styles when they arrived in new lands and these new arrivals kept the blade decorating styles..

Great information, thanks!

[blue lander]

What about these two? I got them awhile back with a couple other items and sort of wrote them off as souvenirs. The top one looks somewhat similar to the Hmong knife. It's actually quite sturdy with a fairly thick blade with distal taper. It's as sharp as your average pocket knife and seems very usable. The bottom one's blade is very crude and barely sharpened. I have no idea what it's supposed to be.

[Andrew]

I've never seen one like the bottom example.

The top one is an example of knives still being produced in Myanmar/Burma (and, likely, Thailand). About 10 years ago, I was introduced to a gentleman who had a government-approved trip scheduled to Myanmar, where he was spending time with Karen tribes. I requested he bring me back something sharp and pointy if he came across anything inexpensive. He sent me this:

Dha-hmyaung. Myanmar (Burma). Early 21st Century. Brass and rattan fittings. Newly manufactured by Karen Tribesmen.

Overall length: 30 cm
Blade length: 20 cm
Handle length: 10 cm
Scabbard length: 22 cm

[Congoblades]

I have a simular one. Does not look very old.

[blue lander]

How large is that one? Mine's only 20mm OAL, much smaller than the one Andrew posted.

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by Andrew

I've never seen one like the bottom example.

The top one is an example of knives still being produced in Myanmar/Burma (and, likely, Thailand). About 10 years ago, I was introduced to a gentleman who had a government-approved trip scheduled to Myanmar, where he was spending time with Karen tribes. I requested he bring me back something sharp and pointy if he came across anything inexpensive. He sent me this:

Dha-hmyaung. Myanmar (Burma). Early 21st Century. Brass and rattan fittings. Newly manufactured by Karen Tribesmen.

Overall length: 30 cm
Blade length: 20 cm
Handle length: 10 cm
Scabbard length: 22 cm

Just curious, Andrew...when this gentleman went to Myanmar and stayed with the Karen...do you know what state or area he was in?

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Just curious, Andrew...when this gentleman went to Myanmar and stayed with the Karen...do you know what state or area he was in?

It's been about 10 years, Nathaniel. I'll see if my email archives go back that far.

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by blue lander

What about these two? I got them awhile back with a couple other items and sort of wrote them off as souvenirs. The top one looks somewhat similar to the Hmong knife. It's actually quite sturdy with a fairly thick blade with distal taper. It's as sharp as your average pocket knife and seems very usable. The bottom one's blade is very crude and barely sharpened. I have no idea what it's supposed to be.

I have one similar to the first one from the Shan State of Myanmar . I do not know the knife style is specific to a certain group. This one pictured is tourist/ trinket/ kid toys