St. Peter's Dagger

Jim McDougall · 7th August 2014, 02:39 AM

Excellent alternative solution which has been well presented, and of course may well be the case as the location in which it is held certainly seems to have associated significance. It does not seem that the period of the knife itself not necessarily aligned with that of the Saint himself should be a factor as these appear to be votive relics. It is unfortunate they do not offer more substantial data in describing the piece, as it is quite apparent there is more than one St.Peter.

Oliver Pinchot · 7th August 2014, 05:57 PM

Gentlemen,

The form of the blade and chiseled motifs, fullering and the shape of the grip all support a mid-late 15th century Ottoman attribution. I wish the pic was clearer; the motifs decorating the grip would prove illuminating.

Oliver

A. G. Maisey · 7th August 2014, 11:53 PM

Oliver, we're lucky to have any photo at all.

Photos in this part of the Basilica are strictly forbidden.

David · 8th August 2014, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

I wish the pic was clearer; the motifs decorating the grip would prove illuminating.

Oliver, i've turned it B&W and opened up a the shadows a bit. Not ideal, but it may help a little.

Oliver Pinchot · 8th August 2014, 04:14 AM

It's certainly a help, David, thanks!
Alan, did you take the pic? Wondering how large it is.

Battara · 8th August 2014, 05:40 AM

Good point - does feel Ottoman.

A. G. Maisey · 8th August 2014, 06:04 AM

Its in a glass case, I'd guess maybe 15", end to end.

Oliver Pinchot · 8th August 2014, 06:35 AM

Given the measurements (thanks, Alan) I think the blade is definitely Ottoman of that period. The chiseled, segmented sun disk and Timurid trefoils are characteristic, together with the fullering and the stop at the forte.

The grip may be original to it, the form is reasonable. But the nature of the characters (if that is indeed what they are) which decorate the borders, and the absence of any sort of bolsters rather derail that line of thought, at least for the moment. Perhaps more information will surface at some point. A lovely conundrum, in any case.

7th August 2014, 05:57 PM	#2
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 470	Gentlemen, The form of the blade and chiseled motifs, fullering and the shape of the grip all support a mid-late 15th century Ottoman attribution. I wish the pic was clearer; the motifs decorating the grip would prove illuminating. Oliver Last edited by Oliver Pinchot; 7th August 2014 at 06:24 PM.

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7th August 2014, 02:39 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,668	Excellent alternative solution which has been well presented, and of course may well be the case as the location in which it is held certainly seems to have associated significance. It does not seem that the period of the knife itself not necessarily aligned with that of the Saint himself should be a factor as these appear to be votive relics. It is unfortunate they do not offer more substantial data in describing the piece, as it is quite apparent there is more than one St.Peter.

7th August 2014, 11:53 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Oliver, we're lucky to have any photo at all. Photos in this part of the Basilica are strictly forbidden.

8th August 2014, 04:14 AM	#5
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 470	It's certainly a help, David, thanks! Alan, did you take the pic? Wondering how large it is.

8th August 2014, 05:40 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	Good point - does feel Ottoman.

8th August 2014, 06:04 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Its in a glass case, I'd guess maybe 15", end to end.

8th August 2014, 06:35 AM	#8
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 470	Given the measurements (thanks, Alan) I think the blade is definitely Ottoman of that period. The chiseled, segmented sun disk and Timurid trefoils are characteristic, together with the fullering and the stop at the forte. The grip may be original to it, the form is reasonable. But the nature of the characters (if that is indeed what they are) which decorate the borders, and the absence of any sort of bolsters rather derail that line of thought, at least for the moment. Perhaps more information will surface at some point. A lovely conundrum, in any case.