Unknown short sword. Where's it from? Philippines? Naga?

RSWORD · 5th July 2014, 02:11 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys. As I suspected we have a wide range of opinions which adds to the mystique and interest in this piece. If only these things could talk. I will review all the thoughts and add to them to mine and continue to work on a possible origin. Many thanks for the feedback.

Ian · 5th July 2014, 05:17 AM

Rick:

On further reflection I think the clue to what this was used for lies in the thickness of the blade. You say "very thick," but just how thick? If the spine measures more than a centimeter across, then the overwhelming use for such a blade in SE Asia is for splitting coconuts or chopping branches and small trees for firewood. Yes, we do find occasional weapons with blades of that thickness (the parang latok from Borneo, some of the klewang from Aceh, etc.), but seldom the focused wear on the blade that this one shows.

Since the blade has seen some hard use, probably over an extended period of time, it is possible that the handle is a replacement. And the scabbard also looks fairly recent in manufacture, with those well preserved rattan strips and no obvious dings.

My best guess would be a coconut splitting knife from northern Burma/Nagaland/Assam.

Ian.

Maurice · 5th July 2014, 09:54 AM

Hello Rick,

It is from the Tengger Mountains.
In the museum of Leiden are several of them, all from the Tenggerese..

A good Belgium friendcollector of mine, who alerted me on your post, has also one in his private collection and did some research before and knew what it was.

Regards from Belgium and the Netherlands!

Ian · 5th July 2014, 11:14 AM

COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM Portret van een oude Tenggerese man TMnr 10005231.jpg

Portrait of an old Tenggerese man

Dated 1910

Maurice · 6th July 2014, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM Portret van een oude Tenggerese man TMnr 10005231.jpg

Portrait of an old Tenggerese man

Dated 1910

This is a cool photo of a Tengerese man! Thanks for sharing....

Sajen · 5th July 2014, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hello Rick,

It is from the Tengger Mountains.
In the museum of Leiden are several of them, all from the Tenggerese..

A good Belgium friendcollector of mine, who alerted me on your post, has also one in his private collection and did some research before and knew what it was.

Regards from Belgium and the Netherlands!

Hello Maurice,

great! This is one reason why I am happy to be a member of this forum; nearly all seldom seen items can be identified! Never have seen such a chopper before.

Regards,
Detlef

RSWORD · 5th July 2014, 03:38 PM

Maurice,

Many thanks to you and your collector friend. I was hopeful someone had seen something similar and given how many of us had not run across anything similar it has been most helpful and educational. I agree completely with Sajen! This is a huge reason why we gather. Bravo!

Maurice · 6th July 2014, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Maurice,

great! This is one reason why I am happy to be a member of this forum; nearly all seldom seen items can be identified! Never have seen such a chopper before.

Regards,
Detlef

Regards,
Maurice

S.Workman · 5th July 2014, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hello Rick,

It is from the Tengger Mountains.
In the museum of Leiden are several of them, all from the Tenggerese..

A good Belgium friendcollector of mine, who alerted me on your post, has also one in his private collection and did some research before and knew what it was.

Regards from Belgium and the Netherlands!

Where did you get those cool maps? They are very cool….

CharlesS · 5th July 2014, 06:18 PM

I am trying to think back on obscure pieces ultimately being correctly identified on this site and I really believe this one "might take the cake".

Interesting piece, and even more fascinating to learn more about it.

Personally, I have never seen anything remotely similar.

Good post Rsword!

Maurice · 6th July 2014, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Workman

Where did you get those cool maps? They are very cool….

I have this very big Atlas "van Tropisch Nederland", 1938.
I made the photos with my cellphone from it.

Rg,
Maurice

Maurice · 6th July 2014, 10:49 AM

My friend didn't mind placing a photo of the sword in his collection.

So here it is!
Enjoy.....

Rg,
Maurice

VVV · 6th July 2014, 09:11 PM

Nice find Rick and cool research Maurice!

Blades from the Tenggerese, like the Badui, is not something you see everyday...

Michael

5th July 2014, 09:54 AM	#3
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,462	Tenggerese mountain Hello Rick, It is from the Tengger Mountains. In the museum of Leiden are several of them, all from the Tenggerese.. A good Belgium friendcollector of mine, who alerted me on your post, has also one in his private collection and did some research before and knew what it was. Regards from Belgium and the Netherlands! Attached Images Last edited by Maurice; 5th July 2014 at 10:13 AM.

5th July 2014, 11:14 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,513	Images from the Dutch Tropenmuseum COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM Portret van een oude Tenggerese man TMnr 10005231.jpg Portrait of an old Tenggerese man Dated 1910 Attached Images

6th July 2014, 10:49 AM	#12
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,462	My friend didn't mind placing a photo of the sword in his collection. So here it is! Enjoy..... Rg, Maurice Attached Images

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5th July 2014, 02:11 AM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Thanks for the feedback guys. As I suspected we have a wide range of opinions which adds to the mystique and interest in this piece. If only these things could talk. I will review all the thoughts and add to them to mine and continue to work on a possible origin. Many thanks for the feedback.

5th July 2014, 05:17 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,513	Rick: On further reflection I think the clue to what this was used for lies in the thickness of the blade. You say "very thick," but just how thick? If the spine measures more than a centimeter across, then the overwhelming use for such a blade in SE Asia is for splitting coconuts or chopping branches and small trees for firewood. Yes, we do find occasional weapons with blades of that thickness (the parang latok from Borneo, some of the klewang from Aceh, etc.), but seldom the focused wear on the blade that this one shows. Since the blade has seen some hard use, probably over an extended period of time, it is possible that the handle is a replacement. And the scabbard also looks fairly recent in manufacture, with those well preserved rattan strips and no obvious dings. My best guess would be a coconut splitting knife from northern Burma/Nagaland/Assam. Ian.

5th July 2014, 03:38 PM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Maurice, Many thanks to you and your collector friend. I was hopeful someone had seen something similar and given how many of us had not run across anything similar it has been most helpful and educational. I agree completely with Sajen! This is a huge reason why we gather. Bravo!

5th July 2014, 06:18 PM	#10
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	I am trying to think back on obscure pieces ultimately being correctly identified on this site and I really believe this one "might take the cake". Interesting piece, and even more fascinating to learn more about it. Personally, I have never seen anything remotely similar. Good post Rsword!

6th July 2014, 09:11 PM	#13
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Nice find Rick and cool research Maurice! Blades from the Tenggerese, like the Badui, is not something you see everyday... Michael