Kattara restoration

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Just to remind members that this is Kuburs thread on a restoration note... Anyone wishing to take on the discussion over the Omani Sword form (The dancing sword)is more than welcome to do so ...but on the correct thread which is http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ight=Omani+Sayf

Unless of course you would prefer to "imagine" rather than to "know" the facts; Obtuse remarks will not change the dancing sword into a fighting weapon no matter how many toys are thrown !

Bring it on...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Please know you first wandered down the garden path about dances and such on the thread you now wish us to return to suddenly. I have just picked up the ball once it was kicked in this thread.

I do not want to draw on fiction and change one sword to another, I only want you to understand there are dance sword which you describe so well and there are swords with fighting blade of the same form being from antiquity, that is all.
It cannot be denied or passed off as bazaar rubbish for tourist if it does not conform to your beliefs. The knowledge of the fact that there are both types in existence should be shared with all.

I am happy to listen to your methods of leather and silver binding for the restoration, please proceed but without quantifying your sole beliefs about what the blade must be first before you do...it is the binding in question for the hilt form.

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by SwordsAntiqueWeapons

Please know you first wandered down the garden path about dances and such on the thread you now wish us to return to suddenly. I have just picked up the ball once it was kicked in this thread.

I do not want to draw on fiction and change one sword to another, I only want you to understand there are dance sword which you describe so well and there are swords with fighting blade of the same form being from antiquity, that is all.
It cannot be denied or passed off as bazaar rubbish for tourist if it does not conform to your beliefs. The knowledge of the fact that there are both types in existence should be shared with all.

I am happy to listen to your methods of leather and silver binding for the restoration, please proceed but without quantifying your sole beliefs about what the blade must be first before you do...it is the binding in question for the hilt form.

Gavin

Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons, There are not two types in existence and never have been. The straight dancing sword or Sayf was invented for the current dynasty shortly after 1744 AD. It conforms to one specific styling that encompasses a flat spatulate blade with a round tip and sharp on both edges.(this is a deliberate reflection of the Sayf Yamaani Omani Battle Sword styling) The primary blade requirement is that it must be flexible..for vibrating the blade when dancing or salutations to the Ruler. The usual bend is easily through 90 degrees. The hilt must be conical...historically this comes from the curved Kattara weapon hilt worn by Omani slave masters.

Confusion and misunderstanding have tricked onlookers/visitors to Oman throughout history into imagining that the dancing sword must have been used in battle. It never was. It was carried by soldiers for ceremonial salutation and pageantry duties only.(Funun)

In fact it must be viewed as a dynastic ceremonial sword.
************************************************** *

Question ~So where does the sword which has a stiff apparent fighting blade for come from?

Answer ~ Ethiopia
~and having originally been made in Germany as a trade blade...Used in Ethiopia then exported via Yemen where the hilts which were usually Rhino were stripped off...and used for Jambia hilts... backyard rough hilts were placed ...and the weapons were sold in Sanaa etc...Many were transferred to Oman where since 1970 they have been sold as is ...complete with rough iron hilts or further rehilted in the Omani Style; some quite expertly so...and with welded hilt extensions plus the Omani Pommel and conical hilts and look every inch like a dancer except they aren't...but were sold through Muttrah Souk to non suspecting tourists worldwide. This is still being done.

(I estimate that since 1970 thousands of rehilts may have been thus produced.)

These are not Omani fighting blades but ironically they are probably Ethiopian fighting blades...simply the result of souk trade transfer and clever rehilting...Ethiopia.... Yemen ... Oman. Origin; Germany.

Thus the designation is Tourist Sword.

SEE #241 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ttara+comments which shows a German made sword from Ethiopia having done the international souk transfer and finally having been given the Muttrah treatment before being re hilted with an Omani conical hilt plus silver work etc then sold to Tourists ..

I have given the thread originator the Forum site from which he can observe many different hilt decorative styles. Before proceeding with any other beneficial assistance I would prefer to know what is the blade... Omani or Ethiopian?... so that I may advise accordingly... and so that he may know the facts.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

So it continues here :-)

Both exist, I am sorry you can't see nor accept it and did not wish to inspect first hand those I had offered.
If I based your previous defence on the matter as absolute one would have to consider every sword presented on the subject as a souk fake...
There are a few points about the flexible blades, their origins and types that need to be taken with more consideration too as your theories are not absolute.

Kubur, I will have time next week to draw from images I have in sold stock archives that display both simple and complex hilt bindings. I am sure you will be able to base a sound restoration on them.

Please remind me if I forget.

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by SwordsAntiqueWeapons

So it continues here :-)

Both exist, I am sorry you can't see nor accept it and did not wish to inspect first hand those I had offered.
If I based your previous defence on the matter as absolute one would have to consider every sword presented on the subject as a souk fake...
There are a few points about the flexible blades, their origins and types that need to be taken with more consideration too as your theories are not absolute.

Kubur, I will have time next week to draw from images I have in sold stock archives that display both simple and complex hilt bindings. I am sure you will be able to base a sound restoration on them.

Please remind me if I forget.

Gavin

It continues here because you refuse to continue it elsewhere... Your offer to inspect your sword in Australia was vaguelly irrelevant...I am in Oman...Why would I want to go to Australia to see Omani Swords?

You make a sweeping remark about swords which I observe as fakes...Irrelevant; try to stay on subject..

If you have a few points about the sword type in question why don't you float them here ? Or on the correct thread below;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=Omani+Sayf

My question to the thread originator is designed to see if the sword is a tourist item or an original Omani Sayf... The Dancing Sword. If you have perhaps accidentally misrepresented a sword ..sold from your collection... as a fighting blade when the sword type was for Dancing and Pageants only...that is your problem. Consider changing your Historical Package to accomodate the correct detail.

The Omani Dancing Sword..Pageants, Funun and Salutations only... Never a Fighting Sword.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.