Another restoration question - help me, experts!

S.Workman · 31st May 2014, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I might still try distilled water or a full strength vinegar with no water added to it at all to see if it is still a problem.

I think I still need to rinse the vinegar off before applying the warangan (I hope I am using this term correctly), and then I am back to square one. Is it possible that this keris is meant to be cleaned and oiled, with no treatment?

kai · 31st May 2014, 10:53 AM

Quote:

I think I still need to rinse the vinegar off before applying the warangan (I hope I am using this term correctly), and then I am back to square one. Is it possible that this keris is meant to be cleaned and oiled, with no treatment?

No, just go ahead! Much of this is trial and error until you've gained enough experience.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 31st May 2014, 04:46 PM

To my eyes, this is an unusual and unexpected result from what has been described. Incidentally, I do dilute strong acids, such as sulphuric or hydrochloric, I do not dilute vinegar. An acid that you put your salad is never, ever going to hurt any ferric material.

I would suggest scrubbing the blade with lime juice and a tooth brush until the blade is clean of any reddish or brownish discolouration, then rinse and dry thoroughly. You can rinse and dry the blade between every few applications if the dirt builds up.

When the blade is clean, immediately brush with lime juice again, and then immediately begin the staining process.

The lime juice must be freshly squeezed tahitian limes, strained so there is no solid matter, and filtered through a piece of clean old linen --- I use a worn out old handerchief.

S.Workman · 31st May 2014, 06:00 PM

Got it! Alan has said before, I think in the "repatinating keris" instructions somewhere on this site, to neutralize the acid with baking soda. I had rinsed the blade under water, and seeing the immediate discoloration, had placed the blade back in the solution. Today, I scrubbed the blade down with a soda slurry, towel dried then blow dried it, and no rust appeared, although the color was dull compared to the colors presented when the blade is wet. I put the keris back into a straight vinegar bath, and I am hoping that tomorrow ends up fair, it is supposed to be warmish and mostly sunny. I have my yarn wrap ready for the tangs, and the small split on one hulu fixed so I may have something to show by tomorrow night. I will post photos, whatever the results.
Then I can show you all another keris I got.

A. G. Maisey · 31st May 2014, 07:49 PM

Yes, a slurry of bicarbonate of soda, brushed on and left for a couple of minutes, then rinsed thoroughly and dried will stop any acid action.

I use this when I'm staining damascus, but I don't use it on keris, because before you begin to stain the keris it helps if you sensitise the blade with the same acid that you use to mix the arsenic:- lime juice.

However, I seem to recall that you're going for just a light acid finish now? Problems with getting arsenic? In that case kill the acid with the bicarb and you probably should get an acceptable result.

It is possible just to brush the vinegar, or whatever you use. It takes longer, but its easier to control. If the blade comes up too dark you could try rubbing it with lime skin---the inside of the skin--- under running water.

David · 31st May 2014, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

However, I seem to recall that you're going for just a light acid finish now? Problems with getting arsenic? In that case kill the acid with the bicarb and you probably should get an acceptable result.

If you read back Alan i believe you will see that he did in fact manage to get hold of some lab quality arsenic.

S.Workman · 31st May 2014, 09:50 PM

Just a quick update, photos to follow when the keris are reassembled. The weather turned pleasant, so I spent the afternoon working on the blades. My problematic "rusty" keris did not respond to the wash in any way, there was literally no change from the freshly soaked blade. Thats OK with me, I just oiled the blade and set it aside. The other, smoother blade responded spectacularly, with very defined and bright lines of pamor on a dark ground. It may actually be darker than would be preferable, but there were some problems getting a good finish on those formerly rusty patches, so I sort of blended the wash in overall. Its a whole new keris. Like I said, photos to follow. Thanks again for everyones interest and help. This has been an exercise in patience for me most definitely, and a great way to understand this most fascinating artifact. They certainly have personality.

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31st May 2014, 04:46 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	To my eyes, this is an unusual and unexpected result from what has been described. Incidentally, I do dilute strong acids, such as sulphuric or hydrochloric, I do not dilute vinegar. An acid that you put your salad is never, ever going to hurt any ferric material. I would suggest scrubbing the blade with lime juice and a tooth brush until the blade is clean of any reddish or brownish discolouration, then rinse and dry thoroughly. You can rinse and dry the blade between every few applications if the dirt builds up. When the blade is clean, immediately brush with lime juice again, and then immediately begin the staining process. The lime juice must be freshly squeezed tahitian limes, strained so there is no solid matter, and filtered through a piece of clean old linen --- I use a worn out old handerchief.

31st May 2014, 06:00 PM	#4
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	Got it! Alan has said before, I think in the "repatinating keris" instructions somewhere on this site, to neutralize the acid with baking soda. I had rinsed the blade under water, and seeing the immediate discoloration, had placed the blade back in the solution. Today, I scrubbed the blade down with a soda slurry, towel dried then blow dried it, and no rust appeared, although the color was dull compared to the colors presented when the blade is wet. I put the keris back into a straight vinegar bath, and I am hoping that tomorrow ends up fair, it is supposed to be warmish and mostly sunny. I have my yarn wrap ready for the tangs, and the small split on one hulu fixed so I may have something to show by tomorrow night. I will post photos, whatever the results. Then I can show you all another keris I got.

31st May 2014, 07:49 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes, a slurry of bicarbonate of soda, brushed on and left for a couple of minutes, then rinsed thoroughly and dried will stop any acid action. I use this when I'm staining damascus, but I don't use it on keris, because before you begin to stain the keris it helps if you sensitise the blade with the same acid that you use to mix the arsenic:- lime juice. However, I seem to recall that you're going for just a light acid finish now? Problems with getting arsenic? In that case kill the acid with the bicarb and you probably should get an acceptable result. It is possible just to brush the vinegar, or whatever you use. It takes longer, but its easier to control. If the blade comes up too dark you could try rubbing it with lime skin---the inside of the skin--- under running water.

31st May 2014, 09:50 PM	#7
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	Just a quick update, photos to follow when the keris are reassembled. The weather turned pleasant, so I spent the afternoon working on the blades. My problematic "rusty" keris did not respond to the wash in any way, there was literally no change from the freshly soaked blade. Thats OK with me, I just oiled the blade and set it aside. The other, smoother blade responded spectacularly, with very defined and bright lines of pamor on a dark ground. It may actually be darker than would be preferable, but there were some problems getting a good finish on those formerly rusty patches, so I sort of blended the wash in overall. Its a whole new keris. Like I said, photos to follow. Thanks again for everyones interest and help. This has been an exercise in patience for me most definitely, and a great way to understand this most fascinating artifact. They certainly have personality.