Two Fine and Characteristic Military Matchlock Muskets, Suhl, ca. 1615-20

Matchlock · 26th February 2014, 03:14 PM

It is a museum's hook in the wall!

m

Marcus den toom · 26th February 2014, 05:38 PM

I really need new glasses...

I looked at the Dutch army museum's (Delft) online collection and found these examples.
They do have a very typical form i would say (but seeing as i just confused a wall hanger for a matchcord holder i will not go forth and try to state a fact

)

Matchlock · 26th February 2014, 05:49 PM

Great selection, Marcus,

Thank you for posting!

Telling by the serpentines I should say these are a bit later/younger, 1620's.

Do you happen to know their overall length?

m

Marcus den toom · 26th February 2014, 06:30 PM

Thank you Michael

Allas, the Dutch "zuinigheid" (frugality) didn't permit them to write this down i think...
the second one does have a discription which can be translated roughly to: "Partly round with octagonal barrel. Topside of barrel with raised sight en two unidentified markings (one of which a shield with three crosses). Stock partly restored (butt stock) and some woodworm damages."

http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/...tring=lontslot

cornelistromp · 27th February 2014, 07:23 AM

the lower musket;
reg 018264 dated by jp puype 1620-1630
L: 152cm
barrel: 1155
bore: 19mm
this musket has a had a very long working life, the forestock is a replacement, on almost every pin/screw location a new piece of wood has been inserted. the other one I have to check my notes I believe it is slightly ( a few cm) shorter allover.

the musket in one post #1 is a perfect example of a Dutch musket (read a musket used in the Netherlands) it has the mark of the double A, the arsenal of admiraiteit of Amsterdam stamped in the stock.

best,
jasper

Matchlock · 27th February 2014, 10:50 AM

Hi Jasper,

With a bore and length like the instances given by you that musket was manufactured definitely before ca. 1630, when the Swedish king Gustav Adolf's decree of 1624 said that the ordinary musket had to have a smoothbore of 19-20 mm and a total length of 141 cm.
We know however from existing samples that even in Sweden, muskets continued to be built with a barrel length of 115-118 cm, corresponding to a total length of ca. 156 cm.

Best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 1st March 2014, 08:31 AM

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the info, yes your theory is correct.
at the dutch muskets that I measure I really did not find an association between height and age.
the barrel varied between 960mm and 1200mm, and allover length 130cm and 160cm
the longest musket was a musket from Utrecht in the army museum 1630-1640
length 160cm, barrel 1200 and bore 20.5, No 006069

best,
Jasper

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26th February 2014, 03:14 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	It is a museum's hook in the wall! m

26th February 2014, 05:38 PM	#2
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 534	I really need new glasses... I looked at the Dutch army museum's (Delft) online collection and found these examples. They do have a very typical form i would say (but seeing as i just confused a wall hanger for a matchcord holder i will not go forth and try to state a fact )

26th February 2014, 05:49 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Great selection, Marcus, Thank you for posting! Telling by the serpentines I should say these are a bit later/younger, 1620's. Do you happen to know their overall length? m

26th February 2014, 06:30 PM	#4
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 534	Thank you Michael Allas, the Dutch "zuinigheid" (frugality) didn't permit them to write this down i think... the second one does have a discription which can be translated roughly to: "Partly round with octagonal barrel. Topside of barrel with raised sight en two unidentified markings (one of which a shield with three crosses). Stock partly restored (butt stock) and some woodworm damages." http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/...tring=lontslot

27th February 2014, 07:23 AM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	the lower musket; reg 018264 dated by jp puype 1620-1630 L: 152cm barrel: 1155 bore: 19mm this musket has a had a very long working life, the forestock is a replacement, on almost every pin/screw location a new piece of wood has been inserted. the other one I have to check my notes I believe it is slightly ( a few cm) shorter allover. the musket in one post #1 is a perfect example of a Dutch musket (read a musket used in the Netherlands) it has the mark of the double A, the arsenal of admiraiteit of Amsterdam stamped in the stock. best, jasper

27th February 2014, 10:50 AM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jasper, With a bore and length like the instances given by you that musket was manufactured definitely before ca. 1630, when the Swedish king Gustav Adolf's decree of 1624 said that the ordinary musket had to have a smoothbore of 19-20 mm and a total length of 141 cm. We know however from existing samples that even in Sweden, muskets continued to be built with a barrel length of 115-118 cm, corresponding to a total length of ca. 156 cm. Best, Michael

1st March 2014, 08:31 AM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Michael, Thanks for the info, yes your theory is correct. at the dutch muskets that I measure I really did not find an association between height and age. the barrel varied between 960mm and 1200mm, and allover length 130cm and 160cm the longest musket was a musket from Utrecht in the army museum 1630-1640 length 160cm, barrel 1200 and bore 20.5, No 006069 best, Jasper