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Old 7th February 2014, 10:30 AM   #1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Default Hasekura items at Sendai Museum.

Readers may wish to update on the epic voyage of Hasekura Tsunenaga at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga with particular reference to weapons (see my previous post) he presented to Date Masamune, the Daimyo of Sendai on his return to Japan one of which forms one of the earliest Kastane preserved today...in the Sendai Museum in Japan.

Using the finest library on Ethnographic weapons, (our own) and web searches; No proof seems to exist that these two weapons were either obtained together or that they were presented, however, some persuasive detail exists already detailed at my previous post that they may have been procured in the Philipinnes. In addition, logically, had they been presented by King Philip III would there not have been more exacting supporting evidence?

The blade appears similar to a Storta and naturally therefor similar to the Falschion yet also rather similar to the Chinese form...and what is more ...the fullers are remarkably like Chinese style as shown in the spear head and fullers below .The monster at the blade tip is very much in the style Makara as shown in the attending Makara detail..for comparison.

* What blade style is this and how did it arrive in the Philippines??

* Is this a Kastane hilt form following in the imaginative mythical and stylistic Lion design with accompanying Deities over a typical Kastane hilt formed around a hand and cross guard with "apparent" quillons in the Vajra style and the remains of a Vee shaped rainguard?

* Why is it that no scabbard seems to exist?

* Could Hasekura Tsunenaga have modified his coat of arms to include a cross and have had that stamped on the Kastane (hybrid) blade? (He was, after all, converted to Christianity, baptised in Spain and had a European name; "Francisco Felipe Faxicura.")

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 7th February 2014, 06:42 PM   #2
Jim McDougall
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Excellent Ibrahiim!!! I had overlooked that letter of 1619 and its content, which of course mentions Hasekura 'shopping' (the letter now in Sendai Museum) and is on display with the kris and Ceylonese 'dagger' (actually a kastane). While we assume these were acquired in the Philippines, there is as yet no supporting narrative to accurately provide that provenance.

We note the curious blade of the kastane and the mythical beast feature and its remarkable similarity to Chinese weapons and such features. While we remain compelled to consider the acquisition point of this kastane to be the Philippines, that would seem to favor those regions with the strong trade presence of China there. Naturally many other regions are represented there as well.

The hilt style does seem to correspond to those of the kastane of course, but the blade is remarkably atypical. The scabbards on many forms of edged weapons in these regions seem less than durable in most cases, and these arms are often refurbished with new scabbards many times in their working lives. The fact that this one does not come with a scabbard en suite would suggest to me that it is less than a 'presentation' weapon, and far more likely to have been 'acquired'.
If the kastane and the kris were sent back to Japan prior to Hasekura's return and with a letter to his son, perhaps these items were at that point simply novelties meant for his son or his own keeping. The portrait of the Pope does not seem included in that transport back to Japan precluding his return, so it would seem that was specifically intended for Date Masemune
These edged weapons on the other hand, acquisitions seemingly less than presentation grade, were perhaps included as second thought to Date along with the portrait.

These circumstances might better facilitate the idea that perhaps Hasekura might indeed have adopted a heraldic arms in European style to reflect his status as a baptized Christian, which was of course powerfully important to him . It remains unclear whether these stamped devices on the blade may have been applied in this regard, but the possibility is interesting .

Returning to the broader scope of our discussion, one of the reasons for such interest in the 'Hasekura' kastane is to establish a provenance example of the kastane form hilt has been to establish a time frame for the development of the hilt style.

While there has been considerable discussion on what zoomorphic creatures are depicted in the decorative motif on these hilts, the very nature of these depictions remain quite subjective and notably debated . Naturally since the artistic license inherent in depictions of mythical creatures as well as stylistic renderings of actual ones is often profound, it is difficult to accurately analyze these figures . It does have certain importance in the possible reasons for variation or exactly what creature is represented however.

For example, and treading carefully into sensitive matters, is it possible that the lionhead (Sinha) is indeed represented on all distinctly Sinhalese examples of the kastane, and that the variants might be provenanced from other ethnic origins? Naturally I implore complete objectivity here, and offer the suggestion only as a possible accounting for the variations in style.

I do not believe that the styling of these zoomorphic hilts was directly resultant from European collaboration, however it is known that beautifully carved ivory hits were produced in Ceylon for European markets as early as 16th century. The work of these artisans certainly had considerable bearing on Europeans fascinated with the exotica of these faraway places, and I believe there was likely considerable cross diffusion in place through the colonial periods.

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Old 8th February 2014, 06:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
Excellent Ibrahiim!!! I had overlooked that letter of 1619 and its content, which of course mentions Hasekura 'shopping' (the letter now in Sendai Museum) and is on display with the kris and Ceylonese 'dagger' (actually a kastane). While we assume these were acquired in the Philippines, there is as yet no supporting narrative to accurately provide that provenance.

We note the curious blade of the kastane and the mythical beast feature and its remarkable similarity to Chinese weapons and such features. While we remain compelled to consider the acquisition point of this kastane to be the Philippines, that would seem to favor those regions with the strong trade presence of China there. Naturally many other regions are represented there as well.

The hilt style does seem to correspond to those of the kastane of course, but the blade is remarkably atypical. The scabbards on many forms of edged weapons in these regions seem less than durable in most cases, and these arms are often refurbished with new scabbards many times in their working lives. The fact that this one does not come with a scabbard en suite would suggest to me that it is less than a 'presentation' weapon, and far more likely to have been 'acquired'.
If the kastane and the kris were sent back to Japan prior to Hasekura's return and with a letter to his son, perhaps these items were at that point simply novelties meant for his son or his own keeping. The portrait of the Pope does not seem included in that transport back to Japan precluding his return, so it would seem that was specifically intended for Date Masemune
These edged weapons on the other hand, acquisitions seemingly less than presentation grade, were perhaps included as second thought to Date along with the portrait.

These circumstances might better facilitate the idea that perhaps Hasekura might indeed have adopted a heraldic arms in European style to reflect his status as a baptized Christian, which was of course powerfully important to him . It remains unclear whether these stamped devices on the blade may have been applied in this regard, but the possibility is interesting .

Returning to the broader scope of our discussion, one of the reasons for such interest in the 'Hasekura' kastane is to establish a provenance example of the kastane form hilt has been to establish a time frame for the development of the hilt style.

While there has been considerable discussion on what zoomorphic creatures are depicted in the decorative motif on these hilts, the very nature of these depictions remain quite subjective and notably debated . Naturally since the artistic license inherent in depictions of mythical creatures as well as stylistic renderings of actual ones is often profound, it is difficult to accurately analyze these figures . It does have certain importance in the possible reasons for variation or exactly what creature is represented however.

For example, and treading carefully into sensitive matters, is it possible that the lionhead (Sinha) is indeed represented on all distinctly Sinhalese examples of the kastane, and that the variants might be provenanced from other ethnic origins? Naturally I implore complete objectivity here, and offer the suggestion only as a possible accounting for the variations in style.

I do not believe that the styling of these zoomorphic hilts was directly resultant from European collaboration, however it is known that beautifully carved ivory hits were produced in Ceylon for European markets as early as 16th century. The work of these artisans certainly had considerable bearing on Europeans fascinated with the exotica of these faraway places, and I believe there was likely considerable cross diffusion in place through the colonial periods.

Salaams Jim ~ I agree and perhaps we may examine your last point on styling though I cannot rule out diffusion / influence from a variety of European styles and since Sri Lanka had a healthy network of maritime links through the Moors of Sri Lanka their highly skilled seagoing experts and merchants, thus, goods as you note such as elaborately carved hilts whilst flowing out, could well have been balanced by sword forms flowing in...at least from the influence viewpoint. We may perhaps assume that Mediterranean swords including Jinetta and Nimcha variants could have been imported well before Portuguese intervention in 1505.

It is, however, worth viewing what parts of the Kastane are home grown and what parts are not...and having done that to see by stripping away the home grown structures what is left?


The hilt or handle is obviously Sri Lankan and taken from their rich Buddhist and Hindu traditions. Regarding gold, silver, blade making, ivory and gems~ evidence to show ivory carving specialists stretches back into their history. See The caste system incorporates the full range of specialists to take on the very elaborate work required and Royal Workshops were highly tuned to these methods. The abundance of religious deities spilling down the handguard, and finials on crossguard and rainguard is evidence of the very powerful influence from mythology and spiritual belief..In particular the so called Quillons form a reminder of ancient religious design clearly reflected from Vajra structures from ancient Buddhism. It could be argued that the quillons are purely artistic since they are neither there to trap an opponents sword nor can a finger be placed to give added pressure or power to a strike. The rainguard though practical in securing the weapon in the scabbard is elaborately decorated in scrolls or in the peacock style in line with Deity artform..

The blade is occasionally straight either straight or curved and can be elaborately worked in a way that reflects blade decoration also employed in Pihae Kheata knives.

What then having stripped away these local concepts and designs is left so that we may be able to indicate possible links to European, Indian or other weapons?


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 8th February 2014, 07:38 PM   #4
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THE KRIS PICTURED WITH THE KASTANE MAY BE CLOSER TO THE EARLY PHILIPPINE KRIS OR MALAY KRIS. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW THE MEASUREMENTS ON THE TWO ITEMS TO HELP DETERMINE IF THIS IS A KERIS OR A KRIS. THE TWO COUNTRYS WHERE THE KERIS BECAME LARGER AND CHANGED TO WHAT WE NOW CALL THE KRIS WE BELIEVE WERE MALAYSIA AND THE PHILIPPINES. LIKE THE KASTANE THE HISTORY OF THE KERIS IS UNSURE WITH MANY QUESTIONS UNANSWERED. I HAVE A VERY OLD KRIS SIMULAR TO THE ONE SHOWN THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ON THE FORUM BUT MORE QUESTIONS CAME UP THAN WERE ANSWERED.
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Old 8th February 2014, 11:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANDOO
THE KRIS PICTURED WITH THE KASTANE MAY BE CLOSER TO THE EARLY PHILIPPINE KRIS OR MALAY KRIS. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW THE MEASUREMENTS ON THE TWO ITEMS TO HELP DETERMINE IF THIS IS A KERIS OR A KRIS. THE TWO COUNTRYS WHERE THE KERIS BECAME LARGER AND CHANGED TO WHAT WE NOW CALL THE KRIS WE BELIEVE WERE MALAYSIA AND THE PHILIPPINES. LIKE THE KASTANE THE HISTORY OF THE KERIS IS UNSURE WITH MANY QUESTIONS UNANSWERED. I HAVE A VERY OLD KRIS SIMULAR TO THE ONE SHOWN THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ON THE FORUM BUT MORE QUESTIONS CAME UP THAN WERE ANSWERED.
Barry, i wouldn't want to derail this thread that is specific to the kastane with a discussion on keris, but i don't think there is much doubt that the keris in the Sendai museum is indeed an Indonesian one. There may be some room for debate about it's exact origin (Bali, Jawa???), but it has too many tell-tale features (including kinatah which i have never seen on a Moro kris) of Malay work. I has been described as being 511mm in length, which i believe includes the hilt. A very detailed description of it can be found on this thread (post #40) link below, which i believe Ibrahiim has previously provided a link to and i would suggest that you revive that thread if you would like to discuss the keris so this thread can continue with it's specific investigation into the kastane. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=sendai+keris
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Old 9th February 2014, 12:37 AM   #6
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I AGREE DAVID PERHAPS IT WOULD BE BEST TO REMOVE THE POSTS THAT MAY DERAIL THIS DISCUSSION INCLUDING THIS ONE. NOW I HAVE THE MEASUREMENTS AND IT IS FAIRLY LONG AS THESE KERIS GO BUT IT IS NOT COMPLETELY OUT OF THE KERIS SIZE RANGE. I WOULD APPRECIATE THE REMOVAL OF THE POSTS THANKS BARRY
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Old 9th February 2014, 09:04 AM   #7
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Salaams all ~ Note for comparison. There are several sword groups that may have influenced the Kastane design and viable evidence suggests who may have delivered similar sword forms throughout the early years and encompassing(and bracketing) the first Portuguese arrival in 1505. I turn to "Islamic Arms" by the late Anthony North for two such swords for comparisons. The vehicle for such cross pollination in styles are possibly the famous sea traders of Sri Lanka; The Moors. (see note below*)

The weapon displaying quillons with remarkably similar dragon style finials from the above "Islamic Arms" is Quote"The hilt of carved jade mounted in gold, the blade of watered steel Persian, late 15th century Topkapi Palace, Istanbul".Unquote.

The weapons known as Nimcha are equally intriguing as to potential design influence where Moroccan style may have been transmitted.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note.*See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Moors for a more detailed rendition of the Sri Lankan Moors..
Quote"Sri Lankan Moors (commonly referred to as Muslims) are the third largest ethnic group in Sri Lanka comprising 9.23% of the country's total population. They are predominantly followers of Islam. The Moors trace their ancestry to Arab traders (Moors) who settled in Sri Lanka some time between the 8th and 15th centuries."Unquote.
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Old 10th February 2014, 07:08 PM   #8
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These are outstanding references Ibrahiim, and thank you for the interesting link to the online reference on the Sri Lankan Moors, which indeed adds some important perspective to understanding some of the ethnic and colonial complexity of Sri Lanka.

As you have well noted, Anthony North does address the potential influences of Venice and Northern Italy on these swords, and specifically cites the distinguished French arms historian Charles Buttin:
"...Charles Buttin, who had a considerable number of Moroccan swords in his own collection, and published a paper on them, detected a number of influences in their very individual hilts. He pointed out their similarity to the indigenous sword of Ceylon, the kastane, and discussed their relationship with European swords".
(from "Les Poignards et Les Sabres Marocains', C.Buttin, Hesperis, TomeXXVI, 1939, p.1)

In this the distinct similarities in the guard systems of the hilt are noted, and in his closing comments, North states, referring to the North African hilts, that "...at least one of the influences of these hilts-and perhaps the strongest-came from North Italy-possibly as early as the 15th century".

from "A Late 15th Century Italian Sword" , A.R.E.North, 'The Connoisseur, December , 1975, pp.238-241)

It would seem clear that the influences of Venice in their powerful trade networks almost certainly introduced their weapon forms and styling into many cultural spheres . In this case it would seem that this style hilt configuration quite likely was filtered into Sri Lanka through the Arab traders who populated the Sinhalese littoral in their ports.

The guard and quillon configuration was specifically placed on the original Italian swords to correspond to their unique style in fencing techniques and as part of the developing hand guard systems of these swords. It would seem that this quillon arrangement was adopted by Arabian and of course the North African regions noted in more of a stylistic sense.

In the case of the kastane, while the hilt form is of course stylistically similar, it has become even more vestigial in the downward quillons next to the blade, and the terminals of the guard and quillon are vehicles for the subordinate beast heads.

The identification of the key figure on the hilt, the zoomorphic on the pommel, of course remains a quandary, and it seems in most cases must be considered specifically with each example as there appear to be numerous variations. Naturally in the scope of journalistic references the pommel beast is described by authors in much variation, which seem to reflect whatever sources they may have used in their research.
In one article for example, a kastane in a news item from 2008 is described as "..an ornamental sword that was the symbol of office of the Kandyan Lords, Kings, Adigars and the Dissawas" . The head on the pommel is described as a makara, and in the photo, I must note that the creature does appear to have a snoutlike feature, very much like the architectural makara figures I have seen.
This particular article was written for the Sri Lanka Express by Emmanuel Silva (April 5, 2008) and expressed great concern for these valuable antiquities being dispersed in auctions, flea markets etc.

Naturally, this material is included here in the discussion impartially, for consideration in the examination of data and detail as we work toward learning more on the kastane.
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