What is the earliest contemporary description or illustration of a blunderbuss

[dana_w]

Thanks Miqueleter! That may well turn out to be the “earliest contemporary description or illustration of a blunderbuss like weapon in England”. Is there any more information in the book about who made the blunderbuss, who owns it, or which museum it is in?

From the photo it looks like the blunderbuss has a doglock, so I did a few searches using the terms “blunderbuss”, “doglock” and “1650”. Here is what I found at Andrew Bottomley’s website. It was listed as sold.

A Very Rare early Flintlock Dog-Lock Blunderbuss with a brass barrel, manufactured by "TAYLOR" (probably Godfrey Taylor of London). Brass butt-plate, steel trigger guard, side nails and steel saddle bar. Godfrey Taylor worked in London Circa 1678-1701. Overall length 33 inches. The lock plate engraved with floral motifs and the name "Taylor". The heavy brass barrel struck at the breech with 3 proof marks, the first one is clearly "GT". Very good and completely "Untouched" condition. This is the first time that this item has been offered for sale since 1951. Ref 6901.

[Miqueleter]

Sorry, Dana, what you see image and caption-wise is all the info there is on the gun. No credits, citations, or end notes in the booklet. The lock does indeed have the back catch on the hammer "ala dog lock". However, there appears to be no steel (frizzen)spring-either missing or designed to be internal. Hard to tell. Where is Brian Godwin when you need him!

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Miqueleter

Sorry, Dana, what you see image and caption-wise is all the info there is on the gun. No credits, citations, or end notes in the booklet. The lock does indeed have the back catch on the hammer "ala dog lock". However, there appears to be no steel (frizzen)spring-either missing or designed to be internal. Hard to tell. Where is Brian Godwin when you need him!

Sad, sad, but maybe someone here will recognize it.... someday.

[Miqueleter]

Dana et al

A quick look in my Dutch firearms books revealed a musket of circa 1640 having a flintlock with the frizzen spring located on the interior of the lock. So perhaps that is the case with this blunderbuss lock. Just sayin'

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Miqueleter

Dana et al

A quick look in my Dutch firearms books revealed a musket of circa 1640 having a flintlock with the frizzen spring located on the interior of the lock. So perhaps that is the case with this blunderbuss lock. Just sayin'

We'll never know without a better photo.

[Matchlock]

Hi Dana W,


The oldest illustrative source relating to blunderbusses is, in my opinion, a contemporary drawing of the murder of Thomas Thynne, London, 1681 (1st attachment) where the raiders employed such big-mouthed guns.

Real blunderbusses are known from as early as the 1560's-70's; the very few surving examples are of Dutch origin. Attached please find a scan of p. 181 from Arne Hoff's Dutch Firearms. The match serpentine, trigger and guard are all missing from the illustrated sample which can be closely dated to the 1570's, the fore end is a modern replacement, and so is the wood surrounding the barrel tang.

Attached next is a fine and completely preserved military matchlock blunderbuss, Dutch, the stock and lock ca. 1620 (early Thirty Years War), the barrel reused from an older gun and dating as early as ca. 1560-70; the pan and swiveling cover are working-time modernizations of ca. 1620, the toe and nose of the buttstock show old cracks but are both the original, just reattached. The stock with the wide-flared fishtail butt is of oak; the muzzle diameter of the very heavy wrought-iron barrel is 5 cm! The ramrod is iron, too, and is the original (author's collection).

Next in line are author's photos of the most impressive Dutch matchlock blunderbuss barrel I have ever seen, ca. 1560-70, the swiveling pan cover missing; the muzzle diameter is 8 cm!!! The barrel stages divided by filed moldings closely correspond to those on the barrel of my sampe.
I took the photos 20 years ago when that huge monster was sold at auction.



Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

And something funny:


Last not least I include some illustrations of how 20th and 21st century mankind has come to visualize the Pilgrim Fathers: equipped with a blunderbuss where matchlock and wheellock muskets would seem appropriate ...


m

[Matchlock]

As to the dragon-mouthed barrel illustrated in post # 13, this 'gun' with the spurious date 1490 is a wellknown crude fake, with not one single part being old, let alone original. It is ridiculous to any arms historian!
It is not a blunderbuss, either ...

For genuine dragon- or sea-monster mouthed barrels - all of them are North Italian (Val Trompia), all consist of wrought iron and alll were made in the 1520's-30's - please see my threads

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...monster+barrel

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...monster+barrel

If original, all those arquebus gun barrels are far from being blunderbusses; their caliber was those 14-16 mm that were characteristic of all short barrels of the first half to the mid of the 16th century.


More complete and rather plump forgeries from that very same source attached! BEWARE!!!


Best,
Michael

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Dana W,

The oldest illustrative source relating to blunderbusses is, in my opinion, a contemporary drawing of the murder of Thomas Thynne, London, 1681 (1st attachment) where the raiders employed such big-mouthed guns.

Real blunderbusses are known from as early as the 1560's-70's; the very few surving examples are of Dutch origin. Attached please find a scan of p. 181 from Arne Hoff's Dutch Firearms. The match serpentine, trigger and guard are all missing from the illustrated sample which can be closely dated to the 1570's, the fore end is a modern replacement, and so is the wood surrounding the barrel tang.

Attached next is a fine and completely preserved military matchlock blunderbuss, Dutch, the stock and lock ca. 1620 (early Thirty Years War), the barrel reused from an older gun and dating as early as ca. 1560-70; the pan and swiveling cover are working-time modernizations of ca. 1620, the toe and nose of the buttstock show old cracks but are both the original, just reattached. The stock with the wide-flared fishtail butt is of oak; the muzzle diameter of the very heavy wrought-iron barrel is 5 cm! The ramrod is iron, too, and is the original (author's collection).

Next in line are author's photos of the most impressive Dutch matchlock blunderbuss barrel I have ever seen, ca. 1560-70, the swiveling pan cover missing; the muzzle diameter is 8 cm!!! The barrel stages divided by filed moldings closely correspond to those on the barrel of my sampe.
I took the photos 20 years ago when that huge monster was sold at auction.

Best,
Michael

I have been researching the information thoughtfully provided by Michael (aka Matchlock). It turns out the illustration of Thomas Thynne's 1681 / 1682 murder in Pall Mall is by James Basire I (1730-1802). Most sources that I have found date the illustration to about 1775. Thomas Thynne's tomb can be found in Westminster Cathedral south choir aisle. It also has a depiction of the murder, but I have been unable to find a good photo of the tomb or date its construction.

I have been reading about the matchlock blunderbuss on display at Westfries Museum at Hoorn, but the photo from Arne Hoff's Dutch Firearms is the first that I've seen. Wow! There seem to be some who question the 1570 date. see: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=12

Thanks again Michael for sharing the photos on the military matchlock blunderbuss in your own collection.

Attached image is from:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...=gr&GRid=20770

Additional Info:
http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our.../thomas-thynne
http://hoydensandfirebrands.blogspot...pall-mall.html

[dana_w]

In May of 2013 Glenn Beck’s studio Mercury One sponsored an exhibition entitled “Independence Through History”. Among the items on display was William Bradford’s Bible, which accompanied the Pilgrim leader across the Atlantic Ocean on the Mayflower. The bible is from the collection of Brent Ashworth. It was displayed along with a Pilgrim’s Hat and a “Blunderbuss Gun”. The first photo below was taken by Jonathon M. Seidl of the Blaze ( http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...n-museum-tour/ ). The second photo is from the local ABC news station ( http://www.4utah.com/story/sold-out-...tky8KfJrauwrDQ )


I have some serious doubts about the “Blunderbuss Gun”. It looks a lot like some 18th or even 19th century Blunderbusses that I have seen attributed to Turkey / North Africa and the tourist trade. What do you think?

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by dana_w

Thanks Miqueleter! That may well turn out to be the “earliest contemporary description or illustration of a blunderbuss like weapon in England”. Is there any more information in the book about who made the blunderbuss, who owns it, or which museum it is in?

From the photo it looks like the blunderbuss has a doglock, so I did a few searches using the terms “blunderbuss”, “doglock” and “1650”. Here is what I found at Andrew Bottomley’s website. It was listed as sold.

A Very Rare early Flintlock Dog-Lock Blunderbuss with a brass barrel, manufactured by "TAYLOR" (probably Godfrey Taylor of London). Brass butt-plate, steel trigger guard, side nails and steel saddle bar. Godfrey Taylor worked in London Circa 1678-1701. Overall length 33 inches. The lock plate engraved with floral motifs and the name "Taylor". The heavy brass barrel struck at the breech with 3 proof marks, the first one is clearly "GT". Very good and completely "Untouched" condition. This is the first time that this item has been offered for sale since 1951. Ref 6901.

Hi Dana,


I have been aware of a British tendency to date their weapons way too early, including the people of the Royal Armouries Leeds. They often graciously overlook a later restocking!

Whilst the lock and barrel of this blunderbuss can safely be dated to the 1660's, the straight underline of the buttstock, with no trace of the former belly butt left (cf. the 1650's sample from your post #14 ), strongly indicates a timeline of of restocking of ca. 1680-90.
So this actually is a 1680's blunderbuss reusing an older barrel and lock!


Best,
Michael