Unusual gunong, from where?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

I am wondering out loud - could this be an early version of a Sulu gunong (based on the ukkil on the wood scabbard and the fact that there is no okir on the guard)?

The catch to this theory though is the fact that the white metal mounts look newer to me.

Hi Jose,

thank you very much for your thoughts about this gunong. Blade form look as well to my eyes like an early form. So the ukkil is Sulu, was it usual to lime the ukkil on Sulu? Ask myself if the metal mounts could be from silver and are maybe fresh polished not long ago.

Best regards,

Detlef

[David]

I have always called them Sperm whales and had never heard the term "pot" whale, but apparently they are the same. I would agree that is probably the origin of this tooth as i have quite a similar one myself.

[Rick]

That is a very small tooth for the Spermacetti Whale .
Possibly from an immature one; also possibly a smaller toothed whale .

Yes, carving work like this often was accented with lime .

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

That is a very small tooth for the Spermacetti Whale .
Possibly from an immature one; also possibly a smaller toothed whale .

Yes, carving work like this often was accented with lime .

Well, it looks about the size of mine which is definitely IDed as Sperm whale. There is a great variety of tooth sizes in a whale mouth and of course, as you point out, younger and older whales.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

I have always called them Sperm whales and had never heard the term "pot" whale, but apparently they are the same. I would agree that is probably the origin of this tooth as i have quite a similar one myself.

Hi David,

you are correct, in Germany we call this whale "pot whale", my mistake! But found the term "pot whale" also in a online translator.

Can you post pictures from your example?

Best regards,

Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

you are correct, in Germany we call this whale "pot whale", my mistake! But found the term "pot whale" also in a online translator.
Can you post pictures from your example?

Sorry Detlef, i can't post mine as it has been made into a rather personal ritual item that i do not show around. But i am fairly certain it is the same material and when i bought mine back in the 1960s it was positively IDed as Sperm whale.
Here are some more images of Sperm whale teeth and one made into a small knife handle for a sgian dubh. The teeth in a Sperm what come in a great variety of sizes from the much larger back teeth generally used scrimshaw to small teeth in the front of the jaw.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

Sorry Detlef, i can't post mine as it has been made into a rather personal ritual item that i do not show around. But i am fairly certain it is the same material and when i bought mine back in the 1960s it was positively IDed as Sperm whale.
Here are some more images of Sperm whale teeth and one made into a small knife handle for a sgian dubh. The teeth in a Sperm what come in a great variety of sizes from the much larger back teeth generally used scrimshaw to small teeth in the front of the jaw.

Hello David,

no problem, the pictures you have shown speak for themselve and I was nearly sure by my first guess that it is a sperm whale tooth.

Best regards,

Detlef

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Jose,

thank you very much for your thoughts about this gunong. Blade form look as well to my eyes like an early form. So the ukkil is Sulu, was it usual to lime the ukkil on Sulu? Ask myself if the metal mounts could be from silver and are maybe fresh polished not long ago.

Best regards,

Detlef

The metal looks like polished brass or white metal, not silver.

[VANDOO]

IT COULD BE PILOT WHALE (SOMETIMES CALLED BLACK FISH) THERE ARE LARGE NUMBERS OF THEM AND THEY ARE NOTED FOR MASS STRANDINGS. BEFORE WHALEING AND THE SALE OF ALL WHALE MATERIAL WAS STOPPED THERE WERE PILOT, SPERM AND KILLER WHALE TEETH EASILY AVAILABLE.
THE OTHER POSSIBILITY IS A LARGE TIGER TOOTH I HAVE SEEN TWO GUNONG WITH TIGER TEETH POMMELS OVER THE YEARS. WHAT ARE THE MEASURMENTS ON THIS KNIFE AND THE TOOTH.

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

This looks like a later gunong to me: the blade might be lamianted - the luk were probably made by stock removal though; the (brass?) crosspiece also doesn't look pre-WW2 to me either.

If it is small, the pommel could come from several toothed whales as suggested. It's interesting that they used the tooth tip for attaching the blade/ferrule and filed down the base of the tooth for the pommel end.

I'd be interested to see pics of the blade if you're going to etch it!

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

I'd be interested to see pics of the blade if you're going to etch it!

Hello Kai,

will etch the blade when I have received it. Like you I think to see that the blade is laminated. Do you think that later gunongs will have a scabbard like this one? Frankly said I never have seen a gunong with such a scabbard.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

WHAT ARE THE MEASURMENTS ON THIS KNIFE AND THE TOOTH.

Hello Barry,

there wasn't given measurements in the ebay auction but I think that it is rather small. Will post measurements when I have received it.

BTW, there have been tigers on the Philippines?

Best regards,
Detlef

[VANDOO]

NO TIGERS IN THE PHILIPPINES UNLESS YOU COUNT SOME OF THE WOMEN WHEN THEY GET MAD.
I SUSPECT ALL SORTS OF IVORY ARRIVED VIA TRADE TEETH, TUSKS, ECT TIGER PARTS ARE USED IN CHINESE MEDICINE (ACTUALLY I SUSPECT THERE IS NOT A KNOWN SUBSTANCE IN THE UNIVERSE THAT IS NOT )
THE TOOTH IS POSSIBLY A LATER ADDITION TO THE KNIFE OR THE SHOP HAD THE TOOTH LAYING AROUND AND THE BUYER REQUESTED IT OR THEY JUST PUT IT TOGETHER. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL IF ITS WHALE ON CLOSE INSPECTION AS THEY ARE DIFFERENT IN SHAPE AND OUTSIDE TEXTURE THAN BEAR, SEALS OR THE BIG CATS TEETH. THE GUM LINE SHOWING IN THE PICTURES LOOKS A BIT STRANGE FOR A WHALE BUT ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO TELL A LOT FROM PICTURES.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

NO TIGERS IN THE PHILIPPINES UNLESS YOU COUNT SOME OF THE WOMEN WHEN THEY GET MAD.
I SUSPECT ALL SORTS OF IVORY ARRIVED VIA TRADE TEETH, TUSKS, ECT TIGER PARTS ARE USED IN CHINESE MEDICINE (ACTUALLY I SUSPECT THERE IS NOT A KNOWN SUBSTANCE IN THE UNIVERSE THAT IS NOT )
THE TOOTH IS POSSIBLY A LATER ADDITION TO THE KNIFE OR THE SHOP HAD THE TOOTH LAYING AROUND AND THE BUYER REQUESTED IT OR THEY JUST PUT IT TOGETHER. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL IF ITS WHALE ON CLOSE INSPECTION AS THEY ARE DIFFERENT IN SHAPE AND OUTSIDE TEXTURE THAN BEAR, SEALS OR THE BIG CATS TEETH. THE GUM LINE SHOWING IN THE PICTURES LOOKS A BIT STRANGE FOR A WHALE BUT ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO TELL A LOT FROM PICTURES.

Yes, agree complete with you that most of the "ivory" sorts are traded from other parts of the world.
After I have received it I should be able to tell more about the material and as well if it is original to the blade or a later addition.

Best regards,

Detlef

[Rick]

Unless that is a miniature Gunong it's not a Pilot Whale tooth of the size we find around here .
Looks like white brass or german silver .
I love the fat little luks .