Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 8th May 2013, 09:36 AM   #1
Bjorn
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 188
Default

Absolutely stunning pieces!!! Beautifully drawn. I'm going to enjoy their grace a bit more while finishing my coffee.
Bjorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 02:12 PM   #2
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,056
Default

Far too hard Jussi. I do not know everything about everything, I think I understand a little bit about a little bit.

Q1. Paint. Sunggingan simply means decorative paint work. In Jawa they decorate cupboards and chests in similar fashion. The ones I've shown here have a variety of paints on them, and I have no idea at all what any of them are.

Q2. I do not know. I do know that the intricate ones are not done quickly. When I was ordering from Legiman it was not a matter of waiting a few weeks for one, I got on the end of a queue, placed the order and waited, he'd never take an order of more than 3 from me, and I waited 12 months or more for those. From memory I could get one during one visit, which was maybe 6 to 8 weeks. But actual working time? No idea.

Q3. I've never known an expert authority on sunggingan scabbards, and there is very little in print about them. I do have some notes about the hierarchical use of colours, but I don't remember the rules. The pendoks are coloured coded for kraton ranks --- red for pangeran, green for mentri , black for mourning and for unranked abdi dalem, there's another one there too I think, but I forget it. The paint work is also coloured coded --- white for pangeran I remember, I think it was yellow or gold for mentri. The whole colour thing is coded, but I'd need to look up notes, I can't remember them.
As to appraisal, it is a matter of craftsmanship:- neat, correct execution, correct combination of colours, quality application. Anybody who can appraise any craft work can appraise sunggingan work, after he has learnt the standard.

Q4. Motifs are traditional, I do not have a pattern book of these, but the same few patterns are repeated again and again, especially for kraton wear. Dress not really intended for palace wear enjoys greater freedom, and the wearer can more or less dictate what he wishes, but with kraton motifs, it comes down to the tried and true, such as alas-alasan , modang, lung-lungan, punakawan --- probably a few others too, but they don't come readily to mind. The poleng motif is usually worn by the cantung balung.
A hundred years or so ago the people who would wear this type of keris dress were regarded as "flash jacks". Show-offs, skites. "Hey here I am:- look at me!" These days I have rarely seen anybody wear a sunggingan scabbard except the cantung balungs and an occasional person at some festive occasion.

The men who paint these scabbards are usually the same ones who do wayang puppets.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 02:28 PM   #3
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 369
Default

Thanks Alan. One last question. You had mentioned that anybody that know art can appraise sunggingan after they had learnt the standards. I'm not quite clear on what sort of standard that you mean. Thanks..
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 04:21 PM   #4
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
Default

I PERSONALLY PREFER THE EXAMPLES WITH NO PAINT ON THE HANDLE MY FAVORITE BEING YOUR EXAMPLE WITH THE 2 TIGERS.
1. IS THIS PAINTED FORM OF DECORATION ONLY IN JAVA OR DOES IT EXTEND TRADITIONALLY TO OTHER AREAS ?.
2. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFIGANCE OF THE BLACK AND WHITE CHECKERED PATTERN SEEN ON ONE OF YOUR EXAMPLES?. I HAVE SEEN THIS SEVERAL TIMES BUT DON'T KNOW ITS MEANING.
3. SOME SMALL DESIGNS ON A FEW OF YOUR EXAMPLES HAVE WHAT MIGHT BE SORT OF A COAT OF ARMS. THE ONE MOST OFTEN REPRESENTED HERE HAS A STAR, THE SUN, HALF MOON AND PERHAPS THE EARTH IT KIND OF LOOKS LIKE A HANDGRENADE

I HAVE 2 PICTURES OF THESE PAINTED KERIS I CAN POST HERE TO ADD TO THE POST IF YOU WISH BUT WILL NOT UNLESS YOU APPROVE. THANKS FOR POSTING THESE THE ART WORK IS IMPRESSIVE.
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 06:32 PM   #5
Bjorn
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VANDOO
I PERSONALLY PREFER THE EXAMPLES WITH NO PAINT ON THE HANDLE MY FAVORITE BEING YOUR EXAMPLE WITH THE 2 TIGERS.
1. IS THIS PAINTED FORM OF DECORATION ONLY IN JAVA OR DOES IT EXTEND TRADITIONALLY TO OTHER AREAS ?.
2. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFIGANCE OF THE BLACK AND WHITE CHECKERED PATTERN SEEN ON ONE OF YOUR EXAMPLES?. I HAVE SEEN THIS SEVERAL TIMES BUT DON'T KNOW ITS MEANING.
3. SOME SMALL DESIGNS ON A FEW OF YOUR EXAMPLES HAVE WHAT MIGHT BE SORT OF A COAT OF ARMS. THE ONE MOST OFTEN REPRESENTED HERE HAS A STAR, THE SUN, HALF MOON AND PERHAPS THE EARTH IT KIND OF LOOKS LIKE A HANDGRENADE

I HAVE 2 PICTURES OF THESE PAINTED KERIS I CAN POST HERE TO ADD TO THE POST IF YOU WISH BUT WILL NOT UNLESS YOU APPROVE. THANKS FOR POSTING THESE THE ART WORK IS IMPRESSIVE.
Hi Vandoo,

I'm sure Alan will have some interesting things to say, but let me share with you my limited knowledge as well.


1. I have seen some examples of Balinese painted sheaths. Apart from Java and Bali, I have never seen any.
2. I believe this pattern is known as poleng and expresses the necessity of balance between all opposing forces, such as day and night, good and evil, hot and cold, etc.
3. This is the coat of arms of the Surakarta keraton, specifically of the Pakubuwono line. I'm not sure as to the exact symbolism but I do know the coat of arms also includes a nail in the earth and this is also the meaning of Pakubuwono (Paku=nail, buwono=earth, realm). This signifies the keraton being the centre of the universe and civilization.
Bjorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 05:19 PM   #6
Jussi M.
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Far too hard Jussi. I do not know everything about everything, I think I understand a little bit about a little bit.
Jussi M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 06:15 PM   #7
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi M.
Hate to speak for Alan, but i think he connected your posting of the Munch painting with Rasdan's post that followed immediately after.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 06:31 PM   #8
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,233
Default Merged Threads

Alan, i merged your two threads because i could see no reason to have two simultaneous threads on the same subject.
Nice examples and a fascinating and under researched topic. I have only one example myself from Bali. Bali examples seem to be rarer and i have not seen the resurgence in recent years to create new examples as we have with the Jawa versions. I am away so these are the only two images i have available to show of mine.
Here is a link to a discussion on some other Bali examples.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...unggingan+Bali
Attached Images
  
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 06:35 PM   #9
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,233
Default

My favs that you show Alan are the checkerboard one (i'll call him Woody Woodpecker ) and the one that follows.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 08:33 PM   #10
Jussi M.
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Hate to speak for Alan, but i think he connected your posting of the Munch painting with Rasdan's post that followed immediately after.
Ah, I got it now! Thanks David
Jussi M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2013, 11:50 PM   #11
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,056
Default

Yeah, you're right David, I connected Rasdan and Jussi.

My apologies to you both, gentlemen. I'd just finished watching one of my favorite movies --- Borderline, Jack Nicholson--- and I was somewhere else. If you don't know this movie, its really worth an hour and a half of your time. Don't have an hour and half? Go listen to the Ry Cooder song written for the movie --- same name. Its not all Cooder's work, John Hiatt and some other bloke, Dickenson?, were also involved. Freddy Fender did the sound track version, Harry Dean Stanton did a version with Spanish lyrics, Dylan's done it, Springsteen's done it. Never was a hit, most nobody except musos know it, but it is one of the truly great songs of the last 50 years. I doubt it was written as an anthem for anything, Cooder just got the order for a soundtrack piece and put it together with a bit of help from his friends, but it very eloquently tells two stories, one obvious, one not so obvious. The not so obvious story is the story of every human being.

OK. Keris time.

Rasdan, on the subject of appraisal, what I mean by "learning the standard" is this:- we do not apply the standards of Dutch Old Masters, nor of Italian Renaissance artists to the work of Javanese sunggingan craftsmen. We compare like with like. Thus learning the standards means that we need to understand what is good work, and what is lousy work for a sunggingan craftsman.

Poleng motif. Yuuzan is pretty much on the mark with his response, it is philosophically a representation of the necessity for balance. The original is black & white, there are others I know of, white/black/grey, and white/black/red that are also used in Bali, but essentially any symbolic colours can be used, especially in a non-sacred application. I believe that the white/black motif goes back to Hindu Jawa, as this motif still appears in Javanese applications, and is the dominant one in Bali, where it is still used as the sacred motif. There can be variations in size of the squares and in the borders used, and all these things can be interpreted differently. I really don't know anything worth knowing about this poleng motif, but I'm sure that it is something that could be relatively easily researched for anybody with the interest to do so.

I've seen, and I have , a number of examples of sunggingan work from Bali, and I've seen examples of sunggingan work on scabbards and hilts from Sumatera and generic Bugis.
What a lot of people do not realise is that our present day appreciation of the natural characteristics of materials was not something that necessarily appealed to the tastes of the ancients. The candis of Jawa were carved very skilfully, then covered with a thin layer of plaster, and this plaster was painted, so Prambanan and Borobudur and all the other candis we are so familiar with would have glowed as brilliant gems when they were in use. This taste is reflected in the painted decoration on sunggingan keris dress, and is perhaps more representative of indigenous taste than is the beautifully polished finish that most people now appreciate.

Incidentally, this taste was not exclusive to SE Asia. It applied in Rome and I believe Greece as well.

Sunggingan colour codes. Had a look at me note books. January 1987, sources were Empu Suparman, M'ranggi Agus Irianto (Agus Warangka), and Pak Harjonegoro.
Sunggingan:-
Colour means the base colour:-
White or yellow --- bupati or the royal family
Gold --- pangeran
Sea blue --- penewu
Light green --- mentri

Pendok colours:-
Red --- royal family or a bupati
Green --- penewu or mentri
Dark grey --- lurah
Black --- jajar and may also be used by all ranks, and for wear at a funeral

Court clowns can wear any colour sunggingan or pendok, but must wear it with a rojomolo ukiran
Cantung balung have same rules as clowns, but usually wear poleng motif.

The lambang or crest is as Yuuzan has said, indicative of the Karaton Surakarta Hadiningrat, but it represents Pakubuwana, not the Karaton, it is the ruler, Pakubuwana, who is at the centre of the universe, not the Karaton. The word "Karaton" or "Kraton" means the place of the ruler, it is not regarded as something with any permanence and only has significance if the ruler dwells in it. It is the ruler who is at the centre of the world we know, fulfilling his role on earth just as does the Supreme God in the cosmos. The traditional role of the ruler in Javanese thought is as the entity that intercedes between the natural world and the people of the realm, effectively the ruler ensures protection and prosperity for the realm and the people who are ruled. He does not "own" the realm, nor the people, he is "owned" by the realm and the people, just as the Supreme God is indistinguishable from the cosmos. The kraton itself is unimportant, it is just a heap of bricks and wood, it is the Susuhunan, Sinuhun, The Lord, who is the centre of all, not the pile of bricks. The traditional Javanese ruler had the same rights and obligations on earth as did the Supreme God in the cosmos.

Of course, all that is history now, but it is necessary to understand the place of the Javanese ruler in historic times, to understand the mindset of the grassroots Javanese people now.

David, 'woody woodpecker" is actually a bintulu motif; number of variations, extensive use in Balinese art, connection to kala motif and Bhoma. Pretty easy to research I think.

David, the reason I had two threads was because I needed two for the number of images I posted.

Barry, I can see no reason why we shouldn't all post our sunggingans to this thread.

I think that's covered everything that has been raised, if I missed something please draw my attention to it and I'll try to address it.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2013, 01:27 AM   #12
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
Default

THESE ARE NOT MINE AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE I GOT THE PICTURES BUT IT HAS BEEN A FEW YEARS AGO. WHERE THEY ARE FROM OR THE QUALITY OR AGE I DON'T KNOW. I SUSPECT THE GROUP IN THE STAND ARE NEWER ONES OF LESSER QUALITY BUT AM NOT QUALIFIED TO SAY. THEY WILL ADD TO THE POST AND IF THEY BELONG TO SOMEONE I HOPE MY POSTING THEM DOES NOT OFFEND. IF SO LET ME KNOW AND I WILL HAVE THEM REMOVED.
Attached Images
  
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2013, 07:01 PM   #13
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
David, 'woody woodpecker" is actually a bintulu motif; number of variations, extensive use in Balinese art, connection to kala motif and Bhoma. Pretty easy to research I think.

David, the reason I had two threads was because I needed two for the number of images I posted.
Thanks for the name ID Alan. Not sure how easy it is to research though. At least i haven't found much on the net about this motif which would be the easiest way to research.
I regards to posting images, it is a little know secret that you can actually upload more than the initial 6 images the attachment section allows. After you upload them you just need to go back in the management section and it allows you to continue to upload more.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.