East Javanese Keris(es) - Discussion

[Jean]

Attached are the detailed pictures of the blade shown in post 8#1.
My visual observations are as follows:
. The blade was in rust-free but unstained condition when I received it. After warangan treatment in Solo, the ganja colour appears clearer than the blade itself but it does not seem to be a recent replacement (greneng worn-out) and it fits quite well with the blade.
. The figure carved on the gandik (putut?) does not seem to have been welded as the pamor lines show a good continuity but it could have been carved-out from a larger blade.
. The atasan matches perfectly with the gandar but the slot has been reduced in sized with some putty so the blade and sheath were not originally matching.
Your further observations or questions will be welcome.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Jean, that's a lot better.

Re the blade. There is no doubt at all in my mind that the blade is a changeling. I'd need to handle it to know exactly how it was changed, but it is certain that the puthut is not original, and certain that the gonjo is not original.

As you remark, the blade grain does show good continuity, but if the smith had a full gonjo to work with it would be possible to create an impression of continuity by running the split gonjo up either side of the original gandhik, or as might have been done with this blade, using all the gonjo on one side only and reforging the base. Note how the carving goes into the core on one side of the blade?

This sort of thing that was done in the 19th and early 20th centuries was very, very skilful. I've got two singo barongs that are perhaps the most skilful forge work of this type that I've seen. I ran one of them past a gentleman who is an extremely experienced and very highly regarded keris authority, I told him there was something wrong with the blade, he homed in on the singo barong, because obviously if a simple blade has been played with and it has SB, that's where they've been playing. He could not find any fault with this blade --- not until I gave him a 3X loupe and pointed out the weld joint. Incidentally, I bought the blade as old and genuine, it was only when I examined it closely at home that I found the evidence of alteration. Those oldtime smiths were very, very clever.

Just because a blade is a bit old, and ron dha are worn, or other evidence of age is present, or it came from what might seem to be a genuine local source, that is absolutely no guarantee that we're looking at something old and genuine. It is my belief that this sort of alteration has been going on for at least 200 years. But as I've already said, I'm pretty sure it has not been going on for the last 40 or 50 years. Its easier now for the shonks to build a fake from the ground up.

The gandar might be original to the atasan, or it might not. Yes, there is a bit of variation in the two pieces of material, but very often it is simply not possible for a carver to perfectly match the atasan and the gandar. To my mind this question over the wrongko is neither here nor there. Its OK. But as Jean has said, it is not original to the blade anyway --- again, no big deal. Its asking a bit much to expect to find totally original totally matched, totally perfect two hundred or 300 hundred year old ensembles in modern Indonesia.

Its not a bad keris, but its not what it pretends to be, and as a collectable it is valuable because it demonstrates the way in which blades can altered. I have kept all the really skilful alterations that I have encountered over the years as part of my core collection. They tell you things you'll never find in books.

[A. G. Maisey]

I've finally been able to get one of Jean's JPGs through Photoshop --- don't know why they wouldn't cooperate previously. Anyway, if you look at this pic you'll see the pamor grain comes to a peak just about where I've drawn a line, now look at the other side of the blade and you can see a lot of core material in this area of the blade.

Consider this:- take a nice little billet of gonjo material, weld it to one side of the blade and then even up the blade so that there is equal material on each side of a centre line. Result is you've got a thick little lump of material at the gandhik, so you then carve a puthut --- or whatever else you like--- into that thick little lump, but one side of the lump has pamor, the other side does not.

If the welded on lump is tapered down into the body of the blade it passes a cursory inspection as part of the original material.

[Jean]

Thank you very much Alan for this detailed inspection and evaluation of my blade, it is truly amazing and I did not notice anything abnormal myself except the clearer colour of the ganja and that the putut figure is not symmetrical!
Regarding the fact that you could not easily photoshop my pictures, it might be due to the compression software (Light Image Resizer 4) which I am using for reducing the picture size.
Best regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, it would be unreasonable to expect that you would see this. Ric Furrer possibly would, and I can see it, but to understand a blade you need to know how to make a blade. That was the only reason I spent time learning how to make keris, so I would understand them.

But I you might be able to pick this sort of thing next time around. Yes?

The previous image files opened just fine and I could work on them in Photoshop, but when I transferred those files to My Pictures, they stayed locked. I had a close look at the properties on your images and there is a message there that says something about the files came from a different computer and might be protected. So I changed the name and did a few copies before I Photoshopped it, that seemed to get me around any problems.

[A. G. Maisey]

#2

Madura is fond of capu kagok as is Solo. This keris doesn't look Solo to me, I think maybe coastal East Jawa, wr. Madura.

#3

mamas SW , complex pamor in light blade, probably Jatim/ Maduro


Post 8, keris #2 and keris #3

not a lot I can say about either of these.

#2 is pretty featureless; in the pics it seems to have a "fallen brick" blumbangan, which looks like about the only indicator I can see; the stain is not wonderful, and this might be material or might be the warangan or might be the lack of skill in the person who did it; top of the gonjo might give a clue, feel of the weight distribution and texture of material might give a clue.
Thinking in terms of major strands of influence, yes, Solo and Madura are both known for this scabbard form, but realistically it could be just about anywhere away from strong direct kraton influence.
The hilt is not Solo work, but it uses a Solo style for a model, it also doesn't strike me as Madura work.

I think I'd opt for "Javanese" only for this one.

#3 presents as a typical Madura blade both stylistically and in respect of pamor; the blumbangan looks to be "brick standing", the luk at the point is fairly longish which is not particularly known as a Madura characteristic, but is accepted as an East Jawa characteristic. Maybe a Madura blade made for East Jawa mainland ?
The scabbard form --- mamas SW --- is strongly associated with East Jawa.

I think I'll stay with my hip shot on this one:- East Jawa/Madura

[Jean]

Thank you Alan and I deeply appreciate your expert analysis as usual.
I have other supposedly East Javanese krisses to show but will leave the floor to others.
BTW do you consider Tuban style blades as Jatim or Jateng?
Best regards

[simatua]

a several years in my collection, but still not figured it out. The wilah of this keris ca 30 cm. with a relative simple but with some very detailed parts (tooth) naga. Got it as it is. blades fits good, although the peksi is not exactly in the middle of the waranka. The blade seems to me Buginese ; curved shape and gusen. The dress seems to be more (East?) Java.

Maybe a composed keris, but not done lately by a collector or dealers choice imo.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by simatua

a several years in my collection, but still not figured it out. The wilah of this keris ca 30 cm. with a relative simple but with some very detailed parts (tooth) naga. Got it as it is. blades fits good, although the peksi is not exactly in the middle of the waranka. The blade seems to me Buginese ; curved shape and gusen. The dress seems to be more (East?) Java.

Maybe a composed keris, but not done lately by a collector or dealers choice imo.

You are correct, it is a composed keris. Also when the fit inside the sheath seems good there is to much free space, special in the back. Hilt and sheath are East Jawa/Madura and the very nice blade is Bugis IMHO.

Regards,

Detlef

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Sajen

You are correct, it is a composed keris. Also when the fit inside the sheath seems good there is to much free space, special in the back. Hilt and sheath are East Jawa/Madura and the very nice blade is Bugis IMHO.

Regards,

Detlef

I am not sure that the naga figure is original, it looks odd as well as the front side of the ganja which is too short?
Regards