East Javanese Keris(es) - Discussion

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes David, that is correct, Madura is a part of East Jawa, and before these modern administrative boundaries came into being, it was regarded as a part of Jawa. From the time of Majapahit, and possibly before that time, Madura smiths were producing keris and other products of the forge for people on the mainland.

It used to be a short ferry ride from Surabaya to Madura, but now they've got a bridge over the narrow strait.

However, I think I can understand why Yuuzan would like to keep Madura as a separate entity.

Madura blades do have certain distinctive features that do not occur in blades made on the mainland.

The forms of Madura dress are many and varied and are not reflected in dress used on the mainland.

On the other hand, blades and dress from other parts of East Jawa are often quite difficult to tell apart from blades and dress that originated in other parts of Jawa.

I do feel that it might be of more assistance to the bulk of our membership if we concentrated on East Jawa without Madura, because this is where the difficulty lays, in identifying point of origin for keris that are very close stylistically.

[simatua]

This "bringback" soldier keris, brouht to Netherlands by KNIL soldier begin '50. which i bought last week , is imo ans east Java keris (Balambangan). I have to wait for some better weather to bring the pamor out.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, Madura soldier keris, and a 100% typical Madura blade:-

steeply inwards sloping gandhik, whispy kembang kacang remnant, gonjo lacks substance over the blumbangan, the distance from the final luk to the point is inclined to be longish.

This is definitely not able to be classified as Blambangan. Sorry.

Looks like we're going to get Madura whether we want it or not. Inevitable I suppose, and I guess we'll get other keris posted that will be queried as East Jawa or not. Probably not a bad thing, because it shows what is not East Jawa.

[simatua]

Thanks for the feedback mr. Maisey. dont feel sorry to correct me ( i am here to learn) I did see the Maduran charasteristics, but i went on the wrong foot looking at the ukiran; the raksasa whith the crossed arms for his chest. I thought this is not very common in Madura.

What about this 3 luk keris, wilah ca 34 cm. ( without peksi). also ukiran raksasa, i have to mention, that the ukiran exsist of 2 parts, maybe not to see at the pictures . that te lowest part of the ukiran is a loose "ring".

longhaired at the backside; a little restauration at the head.

I bought it as it is. (mendak etc) the wilah lara sidua luk 3 ( according to Tammens) fits perfect. pamor beras wutah / bendo segodo

[Jean]

Pictures only, please feel free to comment and forget about the 2 Madurese ivory hilts which are not original.
Regards

[Sajen]

I want to show also some examples of maybe East Javanese keris but like already said it is sometimes very difficult to differ between Madura and East Java, so I am not sure.

Example 1

[Sajen]

Example 2

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by Jean

Pictures only, please feel free to comment and forget about the 2 Madurese ivory hilts which are not original.
Regards

Jean, I really love the blade pictured on the 2nd photo. Simple elegance at its best! Thanks for sharing!

[Jean]

Originally Posted by yuuzan

Jean, I really love the blade pictured on the 2nd photo. Simple elegance at its best! Thanks for sharing!

Hello Yuuzan,
Thanks. The darker line along the blade is not a defect but a slight discoloration which appeared after the warangan treatment (pamor kelengan).
Regards

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Looks like we're going to get Madura whether we want it or not. Inevitable I suppose, and I guess we'll get other keris posted that will be queried as East Jawa or not. Probably not a bad thing, because it shows what is not East Jawa.

I couldn't agree more. I hope this thread will contribute to increasing people's understanding of East Jawa keris, and a process of elimination can be a useful tool for discussion and learning.

Now that several photos have been placed, I am wondering about pendok on East Jawa blades. Is there anything that sets them apart from pendok in other parts of Jawa? Are specific types (e.g. blewah) used more than others, or conversely, rarely used?

And what about wood types? Are there any special preferences or are these the same as in central Jawa (e.g. pelet being highly appreciated; an angle of 45 degrees for the grain in the wrongko).

For the wrongko, most of us know that these look relatively bloated and lack the elegance of wrongkos from Solo and Jogya. What I find noticeable is that all the East Jawa gayaman seem to follow the Solo style, i.e. with the little upticked, pointy wave at the right-hand top of the wrongko. Are there also East Jawa gayaman that adopt the Jogya style?

And what about ladrang forms. I don't have any Jogya ladrang myself so I still find it difficult to identify these. Are the ladrang forms in the photos above in Jogya style? Do they also appear less elegant in comparison to those of Jogya?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by yuuzan

And what about ladrang forms. I don't have any Jogya ladrang myself so I still find it difficult to identify these. Are the ladrang forms in the photos above in Jogya style? Do they also appear less elegant in comparison to those of Jogya?

Hello Yuuzan,
The ladrang sheaths from Yogya are called branggah, I attach a typical example. They are finer and more elegant than those from East Java.
I have tried to show representative specimens of the 3 main types of East Java sheaths (gayaman, ladrang, and sandang walikat).
Regards

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by yuuzan

And what about ladrang forms. I don't have any Jogya ladrang myself so I still find it difficult to identify these. Are the ladrang forms in the photos above in Jogya style? Do they also appear less elegant in comparison to those of Jogya?

Jeans second and my third examples are ladrang sheaths typical for East Java but for Madura as well. The style is very similar to the Jogya branggah sheaths like Jean has shown.

Regards,

Detlef

[Bjorn]

Sajen, Jean,

Thank you for your contributions. From what I understand, the situation for the branggah style is analogous to that of the gayaman, i.e. the court styles (Solo, Jogya) are highly developed and elegant while the East Javanese styles are cruder copies of these refines court styles.

What I find interesting now is that it appears that in East Java the common style for gayaman wronkos is modelled on the Solo style while the ceremonial wrongkos (branggah) are derivative of the Jogya style.

Does anyone have any knowledge or theories on why this is? Why don't we see both styles being used (Solo gayaman and ladrang derivatives as well as Jogya gayaman and branggah derivatives)?

And relatedly, why is it that no local designs were developed in East Java? Madura features the East Java-type branggah - and possibly also the East Java-type gayaman - but also developed different styles unique to Madura. Were there less skilled craftsmen in East Java possibly? Was it too much of a backwater (Madura had 1 or 2 courts which would have contributed to finer and more refined wrongkos) without the presence of local courts? Or did people consider Solo and Jogya as paradigms of Javanese culture worthy to be emulated?

A lot of questions, and I hope we can slowly but steadily find some answers!

[A. G. Maisey]

Well, it looks as if this thread is well and truly flying, however, I do not have time to keep up with it.

At the moment I'm more than a little busy, and in 9 days I fly out to Solo.

The posts that have already been made to this thread could keep me busy for probably half a day.

If I get a little time further down the track I'll float a few of my opinions, but in the meantime, how about if somebody else floats a few opinions, along with the reasons for the opinions?