Need Help Identifying This Tantō

dana_w · 6th February 2013, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Sure - punch it out the rest of the way.

I just needed to use a little more persuasion.

laEspadaAncha · 6th February 2013, 08:34 PM

While the hamon appears to be legit, i.e., the blade looks to be differentially hardened, there are plenty of differentailly hardened contemporary - and commerical - katana that would make a nice template form which to make one of these... With that in mind, I see a couple 'red flags' right off the bat... the displacement between the mune machi and the ha machi appears extreme IMO, and while at first glace I would think this to be a cut-down katana - which would explain the mekugi ani having been drilled through the mei - the mei wouldn't have existed where it is if this were the case...

Maybe reduced from the machi and re-profiled and re-tempered (not sure if or how the kissaki could be reprofiled though or if this is even done) ?

Another concern I have is that the patina inside the kanji looks new relative to the patina of the nakago, suggesting (again IMHO) it is gimei.

However, please accept my input as being worth exactly what it cost...

And please understand I am only looking at this as if I were considering it for myself, which means (especially when it comes to nihonto) I am looking at it with an awfully critical (and even somewhat skeptical) eye.

I look forward to hearing what Rich has to say about this, as he is the resident authority on nihonto.

estcrh · 6th February 2013, 09:33 PM

Dana, the tanto is a modern reproduction, I have seen this type for sale quite often. Your WWII dirk is also called a "tanken".

dana_w · 7th February 2013, 04:07 PM

I will look around and see if I can find matching example of the "reproduction" tanto / aikuchi / tanken.

Is there anyway to put a production date on the officers naval dirk? Is it worth removing the handle and photographing the tang?

laEspadaAncha · 7th February 2013, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w

Is it worth removing the handle and photographing the tang?

In a word, no.

The blade in the officer's dirk is almost certainly (read: certainly) not nihonto, and is more appreciable and desirable left as-is.

dana_w · 7th February 2013, 11:27 PM

Ok, but

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w

Is there anyway to put a production date on the officers naval dirk?

laEspadaAncha · 8th February 2013, 08:16 AM

To be honest, that's a good question, Dana...

As I understand it, this pattern is still issued in the Japanese navy to this day.

With some Japanese military-pattern edged weapons (e.g., Type 30 bayonets and Type 95 NCO swords), arsenal marks, serial numbers, and/or acceptance stamps can sometimes be used to narrow down a date range with varying degrees of success. There should be arsenal marks or acceptance stamps on the crossguard of your dirk.

Another clue may be found in the same grips. Is the grip of your exmaple made with real or synthetic same? If synthetic, it dates to late-WWII or later.

dana_w · 9th February 2013, 04:17 PM

Hello laEspadaAncha,

Here is a photo of a mark on the crossguard made with my cell phone.

Is there anything to look for that would tell if the grip is synthetic or real?

9th February 2013, 04:17 PM	#8
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 437	Hello laEspadaAncha, Here is a photo of a mark on the crossguard made with my cell phone. Is there anything to look for that would tell if the grip is synthetic or real? Attached Images

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6th February 2013, 08:34 PM	#2
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	While the hamon appears to be legit, i.e., the blade looks to be differentially hardened, there are plenty of differentailly hardened contemporary - and commerical - katana that would make a nice template form which to make one of these... With that in mind, I see a couple 'red flags' right off the bat... the displacement between the mune machi and the ha machi appears extreme IMO, and while at first glace I would think this to be a cut-down katana - which would explain the mekugi ani having been drilled through the mei - the mei wouldn't have existed where it is if this were the case... Maybe reduced from the machi and re-profiled and re-tempered (not sure if or how the kissaki could be reprofiled though or if this is even done) ? Another concern I have is that the patina inside the kanji looks new relative to the patina of the nakago, suggesting (again IMHO) it is gimei. However, please accept my input as being worth exactly what it cost... And please understand I am only looking at this as if I were considering it for myself, which means (especially when it comes to nihonto) I am looking at it with an awfully critical (and even somewhat skeptical) eye. I look forward to hearing what Rich has to say about this, as he is the resident authority on nihonto.

6th February 2013, 09:33 PM	#3
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Dana, the tanto is a modern reproduction, I have seen this type for sale quite often. Your WWII dirk is also called a "tanken".

7th February 2013, 04:07 PM	#4
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 437	I will look around and see if I can find matching example of the "reproduction" tanto / aikuchi / tanken. Is there anyway to put a production date on the officers naval dirk? Is it worth removing the handle and photographing the tang?

8th February 2013, 08:16 AM	#7
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	To be honest, that's a good question, Dana... As I understand it, this pattern is still issued in the Japanese navy to this day. With some Japanese military-pattern edged weapons (e.g., Type 30 bayonets and Type 95 NCO swords), arsenal marks, serial numbers, and/or acceptance stamps can sometimes be used to narrow down a date range with varying degrees of success. There should be arsenal marks or acceptance stamps on the crossguard of your dirk. Another clue may be found in the same grips. Is the grip of your exmaple made with real or synthetic same? If synthetic, it dates to late-WWII or later.