Yataghan and markings - ID and comments, please

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
European hunting hanger latter half 18thC.
Regards,
Norman.

[T. Koch]

Hi Longfellow,

I'm sorry for not getting back to you on the hilt material any time sooner - I must have missed your update somehow.

The scale is a bit tricky to ID, with those diagonal scratches in the surface obscuring the grain, but two features prompt me to believe that we're looking at rhinoceros horn: The horizontal thread-like grain of the handle, where the individual fibers are visible in areas where the surface scratches aren't so prominent, is typical for rhino. Likewise, if you look at the hole drilled near the pommel, the edge is damaged in a way that looks more "thready" than "flakey". Old rhino horn when dry and damaged becomes this way, rather than break of in chips and flakes like many bovine horn, for instance.

But, it is really hard to tell from photos!


Best wishes, - Thor

[Zifir]

Norman,
Thanks a lot for these interesting examples. These are new for me.
Regards,

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by Zifir

Norman,
Thanks a lot for these interesting examples. These are new for me.
Regards,

Hi Zifir,
You're welcome. Here is something else that may be of interest, it is titled, From Freyfechter, Sebastian Heussler's Fencing Treatise, New Kunstlich Fechtbuch of 1615. An interesting article containing this image and others with text can be found here www.hroarr.com/the-dussack/
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Note the images of the 'heads' compared to the images on swords.

[eftihis]

I was doing research for a yataghan that proved to be identical with the one in this thread, so i am showing it! The handle, crossguard, and type of blade are identical. There are different engravings on the blade, of the same style though.

[eftihis]

I wondering what this inscription is about! Is it an abreviation?

[gp]

just like Jim wrote on the Pandours “the exact nature of the probably widely assorted weapons used by them cannot of course be determined with any certainty. As many of the men in these units were recruited from Balkan regions and ethnic groups in contingent areas, all supplying thier own weapons, it would be impossible to do anything but speculate”

the same applies on the Balkans for the Bash Bazouks as both of them were recruted from locals, who either wanted to escape poverty, have a decent bed, food and clothing or just were ordered as a buffer at the borders to function as a protection force. Hence still the name "Krajina" derived from kraj = end in the former Yugoslavia, meaning military frontier were Vlachs, Serbs, Montenegrins, Croats and Bosnians lived.
And many became Pandours at the Habsburgian side , where on the Ottoman side the same became Bash Bazouks with some Albanians an Greek as well included. Similar like at the Battle of Kosovo, a big day in Serbian history, many Serbs were fighting in service of the Sultan....
That line continues to the "Bosniaken"i.e. the Habsburg Infantery Regiments I -IV which existested from 1882 -1918 (NCOs and other ranks were Muslims, 39.12% were Orthodox and 25.04% were Roman Catholic. The remainder were a mix of Greek Catholics, Jews and Protestants.[1] Regardless of religious faith all other ranks wore the fez. ).

So nothing new on the Balkans, same as the Romans used men from the Illyrian regions to fight the Gaul wars.

It goes without saying that they all brought and used their own local weapons and also used local black smiths to manufacture weapons.
Hence quite some influence from all sides.Like in some earlier post where I showed a bichaq who has Bosnian and Surme characteristics. or one with a painting of a Habsburgian Dalmatian regiment who went into battle with yataghans.

So difficult to say sometimes but I would like to hear more from yataghanman and have him elaborate more on his statement as I do want to learn more.

Elgood, no disrespect intended, is for me not leading on Yataghans as i am reading now Durdica Petrovic's book "Balkan waepons (VII-XIX) , one of 4 she wrote, which Elgood used to write for his piece on yataghans.

By he way Baron Franz von der Trenck was although Prussian an Austrian officer in charge of the pandours, just like many Austrians did on the "Bosniaken" and is a cousin of Friedrich Freiherr von der Trenck,, also world famous because of his adventures.

Coming back to the pandours or grenzer versus bash bazouks: both sides were know for their fierce heroic fighting but also some atrocities...