Two takoubas - photos of the blade from Ghat

[Iain]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the great notes on these marks.

I recall now we've discussed the potential link between British proof stamps and the star. I believe it turned up on some kaskara as well as an acid etch, I think Stephen has one.

The note about C.Lutters and Co. is actually particularly interesting because from a little research online it seems they did a lot of razor manufacturing as well. This is of particular interest because explorers like Barth are quite clear on the import of razors into Sahel markets during the 1800s.

I'm attaching an image found online of the Lutters mark - I am not sure what period it is from, but I think interesting none the less.

I could not find anything about swords from Lutters from the period - but I think the straight razors are an interesting angle and possible vector for the mark in native usage.

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Iain, good points on the import of razors, and often the trademarks and devices on these sundry items definitely had an impact on native consumers. As we have often discussed, many of the European markings gained certain talismanic or imbued power via quality assurance in native interpretation. For example the curious 'fly' symbols; the cross and orb becoming the drum; and of course the crescent moons.

I have often wondered, the sphinx must have been a marvel which certainly was known via oral tradition and tales carried far into many tribal regions on trade routes. It is well established that ancient Egyptian elements are present in most of these cultures in varying degree , and the lion is of totemic and royal significance. The Hadendoa name is derived partly from the word for lion as I recall from notes. Perhaps the couchant lion as seen on these items may have inspired the interpretation using the symbol in that regard. I dont actually know of actual examples of blades produced by this firm found on swords, which might have inspired copies like the running wolf, cross and orb and others.

To be clear, not suggesting the use of this symbol for Hadendoa, as this seems clearly Saharan, but the analogy for possible use of the image seemed pertinant.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thanks Iain, good points on the import of razors, and often the trademarks and devices on these sundry items definitely had an impact on native consumers. As we have often discussed, many of the European markings gained certain talismanic or imbued power via quality assurance in native interpretation. For example the curious 'fly' symbols; the cross and orb becoming the drum; and of course the crescent moons.

I have often wondered, the sphinx must have been a marvel which certainly was known via oral tradition and tales carried far into many tribal regions on trade routes. It is well established that ancient Egyptian elements are present in most of these cultures in varying degree , and the lion is of totemic and royal significance. The Hadendoa name is derived partly from the word for lion as I recall from notes. Perhaps the couchant lion as seen on these items may have inspired the interpretation using the symbol in that regard. I dont actually know of actual examples of blades produced by this firm found on swords, which might have inspired copies like the running wolf, cross and orb and others.

To be clear, not suggesting the use of this symbol for Hadendoa, as this seems clearly Saharan, but the analogy for possible use of the image seemed pertinant.

Hi Jim,

Great fun to be back to odd marks on takouba! I could also not find any examples of sword blades from Lutters. However, I think if you take into account the existing lion marks that would have been known from imported blades like those from Kull, the combination and application of various lion engravings locally would make sense. Perhaps the artist had a razor lying around to copy from? Although that's only idle speculation.

Another angle, a similar style of lion is found on Ethiopian gurade blades isn't it? Although the style is quite different.

The star is of equal interest to me as I don't really recall many of these showing up on takouba. There's another example here of Lee's: http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/takoubae.html

All the best,

Iain