A gamble, your opinion?

[Jean]

I would agree with David regarding the materials of the kinatah, I apparently see some traces of "vert de gris" (green copper compound) on the reverse side of the blade, which should indicate that the kinatah is from brass (may be gilt).
Regarding the estimated age of the piece, the seller just says that it was brought to the US after WW2 but this is not a very accurate statement From the pictures and if it was my decision I would categorize the kris as probably from tangguh kamardikan muda Madura but of course I can prove wrong and the piece is quite well made.
The seller also proposes another kris with a kinatah blade of similar quality.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Regarding the estimated age of the piece, the seller just says that it was brought to the US after WW2 but this is not a very accurate statement

Yeah Jean, i think this was left intentionally ambiguous. Of course, the intention is also to get you to think it might be a WW2 bring back, but i don't see that as particularly likely.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

I would agree with David regarding the materials of the kinatah, I apparently see some traces of "vert de gris" (green copper compound) on the reverse side of the blade, which should indicate that the kinatah is from brass (may be gilt).

Hello Jean,

this is what I see as well and I think when the brass is gilded it is a good catch by this price. I don't think that it is kinatah mas, otherwise it would be too much luck!

Regards,

Detlef

[DAHenkel]

in the eighties keris of this type were fairly common in Jalan Surabaya. I would make this about 30 years old giver or take a few year...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

in the eighties keris of this type were fairly common in Jalan Surabaya. I would make this about 30 years old giver or take a few year...

Hello Dave,

for whom they were made? And was the quality good?

Regards,

Detlef

[Rick]

Since you are asking for opinions, Detlef; I would say that I might like this keris more without the brass 'kinatah' overlayed .

Just a sculpture in the pamor itself I would find more interesting .. no need for gloss, IMO .

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

Since you are asking for opinions, Detlef; I would say that I might like this keris more without the brass 'kinatah' overlayed .

Just a sculpture in the pamor itself I would find more interesting .. no need for gloss, IMO .

Hi Rick,

I have tried the gamble because it seems that the quality is good and I personally like keris with kinatah. Let us see what I have bought when I have received it and I can post better pictures. When I was wrong is the amount I have given wasn't extrem!

Regards,

Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

for whom they were made?

I think that for the answer to this we might want to consider just what the significance of the addition of gold kinatah might mean in the culture. Who was a blade with gold kinatah meant for? Then ask, who then would a keris with brass kinatah be made for...

[A. G. Maisey]

I started to see keris with brass kinatah, and brass kinatah gold plated, in the late 1980's, and they continue to be available until today.

As with virtually all keris of the modern era they are made for local consumption, and they are bought by Indonesians as dress keris. Obviously the people who buy them want a bit of bling and cannot afford gold.

I have seen much older keris with kinatah from brass and from alloys other than gold, but these are not common.

The right to kinatah work on a keris was sometimes granted by a ruler, much as medals are given in our own society, however in the far distant past it was also a prerogative of rank. In more recent times --- and I don't know from precisely when --- kinatah was used by anybody who wanted it and could afford it.

As a general rule, we seldom find kinatah work combined with complex pamor.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I have seen much older keris with kinatah from brass and from alloys other than gold, but these are not common.

Pages 181 and 182 show such a Keris if anyone has a copy of "Ferro, oro, pietre prezoise...Le Armi Orientali Dell'Armeris Reale Di Torino.

Gav

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I started to see keris with brass kinatah, and brass kinatah gold plated, in the late 1980's, and they continue to be available until today.

As with virtually all keris of the modern era they are made for local consumption, and they are bought by Indonesians as dress keris. Obviously the people who buy them want a bit of bling and cannot afford gold.

Thank you Alan, this is what I want to know.

Regards,

Detlef