Dagger id question

Rich · 19th July 2012, 12:25 PM

Or possibly a variation on the Chinese "bowie" and dirks??

Rich S

Neil · 19th July 2012, 12:50 PM

Thank you guys for your input so far. Interestingly enough it did come with a small group of old Chinese knives. Chinese weapons are what I am most interested in. Although from my experience this piece does not seem fit in that category. I could be wrong though.

katana · 19th July 2012, 12:56 PM

The hilt does seem to be Chinese 'styled' ....the blade, perhaps, a recycled bayonet

Regards David

trenchwarfare · 19th July 2012, 11:24 PM

The blade does appear to be that of a socket bayonet. Hard to pinpoint a time and place. I've seen this style dagger from the American Revolution, War of Northern Aggression, WWI, and WWII.

Atlantia · 19th July 2012, 11:34 PM

Looks like a strange Chinese fighting knife to me.

VANDOO · 19th July 2012, 11:42 PM

HERE ARE TWO KNIVES I HAVE WITH THIS THREE SIDED BLADE CONFIGURATION. FLAT ON ONE SIDE AND WITH TWO SIDES MEETING IN THE MIDDLE FORMING A THICK CENTER RIDGE. THE LARGE OLDER ONE IS DEFINITELY CHINESE THE SMALLER I AM NOT SURE OF. I SUSPECT THIS IS AN OLD CHINESE FORM THAT MAY HAVE BEEN SPREAD BY CHINESE MERCHANTS AS THEY TRADED MOST EVERYWHERE. PERHAPS SOMEONE WILL HAVE A CHINESE NAME FOR THIS FORM OF BLADE. AS FAR AS I KNOW IT IS NOT A COMMON FORM.

DaveA · 21st July 2012, 01:16 AM

The pictures below are of my double knife, a "river pirate" weapon that is a variant of the hudiedao.

I believe your dagger is one knife in a matched pair of hudiedao.

River piracy along the Yangtze River was rampant in the 19th century. Pirates battled the military for nearly a century. These swords without guards can be instantly reversed in the hand and used with the back edge to subdue an opponent without lethal cuts. The lack of a hand guard distinguishes the ‘river pirate” type from other hudiedao. The hudiedao were widespread by the 1860’s and their design is thought to be derived from maritime boarding knives. The overall length of each of my knives is 14 ¼ inches and each blade is 10 ¼ inches.

Gavin Nugent · 21st July 2012, 02:01 AM

Neil,

I too would suggest Chinese in origin.

DaveA,

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveA

The pictures below are of my double knife, a "river pirate" weapon that is a variant of the hudiedao.
The lack of a hand guard distinguishes the ‘river pirate” type from other hudiedao. The hudiedao were widespread by the 1860’s and their design is thought to be derived from maritime boarding knives.

I am curious to know more about the "River Pirate" attribution and were specific supporting information can be found.
I'd be very surprised if piracy had any standard of weapon for such a general attribution when considering guardless varieties known share similar grips to the guarded type suggestion to me the factory making these weapons made many varients including curved varieties with raised yelman and brass tonkou.

Thanks

Gavin

Neil · 21st July 2012, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Neil,

I too would suggest Chinese in origin.

Gavin,
What aspects in particular give you the impression that it is Chinese
Thanks,
Neil

19th July 2012, 11:42 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE ARE TWO KNIVES I HAVE WITH THIS THREE SIDED BLADE CONFIGURATION. FLAT ON ONE SIDE AND WITH TWO SIDES MEETING IN THE MIDDLE FORMING A THICK CENTER RIDGE. THE LARGE OLDER ONE IS DEFINITELY CHINESE THE SMALLER I AM NOT SURE OF. I SUSPECT THIS IS AN OLD CHINESE FORM THAT MAY HAVE BEEN SPREAD BY CHINESE MERCHANTS AS THEY TRADED MOST EVERYWHERE. PERHAPS SOMEONE WILL HAVE A CHINESE NAME FOR THIS FORM OF BLADE. AS FAR AS I KNOW IT IS NOT A COMMON FORM. Attached Images

21st July 2012, 01:16 AM	#7
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 415	One half of a double knife set - China river pirate The pictures below are of my double knife, a "river pirate" weapon that is a variant of the hudiedao. I believe your dagger is one knife in a matched pair of hudiedao. River piracy along the Yangtze River was rampant in the 19th century. Pirates battled the military for nearly a century. These swords without guards can be instantly reversed in the hand and used with the back edge to subdue an opponent without lethal cuts. The lack of a hand guard distinguishes the ‘river pirate” type from other hudiedao. The hudiedao were widespread by the 1860’s and their design is thought to be derived from maritime boarding knives. The overall length of each of my knives is 14 ¼ inches and each blade is 10 ¼ inches. Attached Images

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19th July 2012, 12:25 PM	#1
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Or possibly a variation on the Chinese "bowie" and dirks?? Rich S

19th July 2012, 12:50 PM	#2
Neil Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 114	Thank you guys for your input so far. Interestingly enough it did come with a small group of old Chinese knives. Chinese weapons are what I am most interested in. Although from my experience this piece does not seem fit in that category. I could be wrong though.

19th July 2012, 12:56 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	The hilt does seem to be Chinese 'styled' ....the blade, perhaps, a recycled bayonet Regards David

19th July 2012, 11:24 PM	#4
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	The blade does appear to be that of a socket bayonet. Hard to pinpoint a time and place. I've seen this style dagger from the American Revolution, War of Northern Aggression, WWI, and WWII.

19th July 2012, 11:34 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Looks like a strange Chinese fighting knife to me.