An immense Khyber sword

[Atlantia]

Hi John,

Sorry to also be a little negative about this piece.
I had a good look at that piece in person when it was sold back in February at auction.
I remember that there was some movement on the hilt and the general construction with the single copper rivet appearing to hold it all together seemed inadequate for the task.
Not to mention the atypical to say the least design of the hilt and general 'feel' made me wonder if it wasn't either a marriage, 'put together' or a late piece made to impress those who travel.

The blade looked to me to be possibly older than the hilt. The stamped 'decoration' looks to have been rubbed/worn/cleaned etc, suggesting age, while the crude bronze hilt seems to have remained relatively 'as cast'.

That said, in it's defence it certainly does have a 'look' to it, and it also has size on it's side!


ATB
Gene

[spiral]

Ahh this piece again! I too have seen & handled it a few months ago... It is certanly interesting!

My perception in hand was a recently buffed mono steel blade from earlyish 20th century combined with an interesting cast head of some form, also combined with a badly cut & decorated piece of sheet brass pinned through with a single copper boat building nail or similar. It seemed to wrap over the bolster rather than fit to it. I presumed the cast head came from some other non Khyber sword item, added to the blade & with the sheet added to pull the design together..

I guess your at least the 4th owner in 4 months which isnt so bad as at least two of the others were proffesional dealers who etched it with ferric chrloride hoping to find wootz... {I am sure incidently there both members of this forum to. } Then the acid wasnt neutralised to allow it to badley re patina { or rust.} slighty before resale to the next hopefull dealer or collector. , till finaly it reached ebay & your good self.

The handle is loose & rateley on the single nail pivot. I assumed the marrige of 3 parts was probably western due to the lack of traditional feeling. But certanly still dramatic! But I could be wrong & indeed perhaps thats the current level of some "chicken street" work, I dont know Ive never been there.

I thought it was an interesting piece , very unique head on it & certanly a "massive" piece, its value? Thats up to the person who pays for it I guess?


Spiral

[Lew]

John

Based on the feedback from your post may I suggest you contact the seller and ask for a refund. You laid out a lot of $$$ for this piece plus if you had it shipped to the USA you laid out $43 in shipping fees

[Stasa Katz]

Ha, this is a blade collector's version of of the Artur Schniztler play, La Ronde.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Ronde_(play)

Ah, this blade has had its travels, eh?

In consolation, I do have a true Khyber and sheath that are the real deal.

[ariel]

I cannot recall another example of such a uniformly-negative opinion on this rather polite and placid Forum!

BTW, Lew, on the 3 from above pic you posted, the lowest khyber ( the one with virtually no pommel, - do you have any idea how old it was? I have a suspicion that such pommel-less handles are seen on really old ones. Here is the opportunity to verify my hypothesis:-)

[Lew]

Ariel

That one is probably Indian and not Afghan. Artzi had one on his table a few year back and that was the consensus. 1825-1850 I would think? Probably belonged to someone of high status. Let me clearify Northern India AKA Pakistan

[ariel]

Well, the drag on the scabbard looks afghani to me, akin to military examples.

[Jim McDougall]

I must agree on the negativity point as well as disparaging notes. It seems clear that John was quite pleased with this Khyber and was kind enough to share it here, then the barrage of discrediting comments certainly must have quickly taken the wind out of his sails.

In my opinion this piece regardless if relatively modernly refurbished (and John made well placed points on these common cases) remains a representative example of these weapons which of course have been used even into more current times.The blade does seem of age, and as has been noted the grip material and the cast pommel are of course replacements.
The simple motif of dots in circle are well known in Afghan items as are other features in context, and to me I see nothing suggesting this might be from Indian regions to the south.

In remote tribal regions weapons are constantly refurbished and especially during times of war or unrest, situations that have remained in flux in tribal regions of Afghanistan throughout recent history. I would consider this an interesting example of these distinct tribal weapons of Afghanistan and as been well pointed out, its rough demeanor suggests it was for use rather than tourist consumption.

Throughout the years that I collected I acquired many weapons that others scoffed at, mostly because I saw them for what they were, and even though not necessarily at the standards of others, I truly enjoyed them for what I learned from them. I also learned about certain protocols toward the weapons of others, and perhaps I am a bit too 'old school'.

[Lew]

Originally Posted by ariel

Well, the drag on the scabbard looks afghani to me, akin to military examples.

Ariel

The scabbard is a recently made replacement made within the last 50 yrs or so it is not original to the knife.