SCHIAVONA FOR COMMENTS

[Multumesc]

Very beautiful sword. Schiavone of Venetian 17th-century .

[Jim McDougall]

This is a remarkable example of the Venetian 'schiavona' swords which indeed appears of 17th century. These infantry swords are commonly associated with the bodyguards of the Doge of Venice, as well as in many cases use by the 'Consiglio deo Dieci' (Council of Ten) with these marked with the 'CX'. The 'gitterkorb' (=trellis hilt, Seifert, 1966) conforms to examples similar of this period, and the brass shield type pommel (often termed 'katzenkopfknauf' =cats head) is unusual in having a human face in place of the usual central boss.

While these 'schiavona' type swords are typically associated with Venice, which indeed was the central location most were used, they found use further in a number of other European situations. The swords themselves are believed to have developed probably from Hungarian or other mid European swords, with the development of the basket guard heavily influenced by contemporary Italian designs. There are however other mid European hilts c.1600 with similar trellis type guards. These swords are believed to have developed through Dalmatia, and into Venice, where the basket hilts developed by around mid 17th century perhaps earlier.

Interestingly there are references to the term 'spada schiavonescha' as early as 1391, but of course the exact form of the sword being described is unknown. The term 'schiavona' is describing the Dalmatian associations with the swords used by the men serving with the forces of Venice, and the Castello District of Venice was long populated by people from Dalmatia.

For those desiring further references on these fascinating swords, one of the most outstanding articles showing thier development is by Nathan Robinson, "The Schiavona and its Influences" online on 'My Armoury'.
Also:
"Cut and Thrust Weapons", E. Wagner, Prague, 1967
"A Schiavona Rapier" Claude Blair, JAAS, Vol.V, #12, Dec 1967, p.453-54
"Blankwaffen Schiavona" Gerhard Seifert, 'Duetsches Waffenjournal", Vol.2, #12, Dec. 1966, pp.42-47
"The Rapier and Smallsword 1400-1820" A.V.B. Norman, 1980, p.65

Thank you for sharing this Fernando!!! a great inspiration to excavate all these notes!

All the best,
Jim

[Matchlock]

Hi 'Nando,

My friend says that this is a truly Portuguese (!) schiavona of quite late type, ca. 1730, so congratulations! Sadly, its state of conservation has obviously suffered from the sea climate.

Best,
Michl

[cornelistromp]

additional notes on previous posts.

a simple memory bridge on schiavona Hilts;

early schiavona Hilts have seperate loose bars overlapping (mid17thC), hereinafter schiavona hilts came with adjacent or fixed bars and a single mouse stairs (late 17thC) such as Fernando's sword, from 1700-1750 double stairs and after 1750 multiple mouse stairs.

best,

[fernando]

Thank you so much, Gentlemen.
I knew i could count on you .

Jim, your comprehensive input is always precious; i am much obliged for that.

Thanks a lot for having resourced Ottmar, Michl ... and what a surprise. Why Portuguese ? I have read of Slavonic soldiers using Schiavonas when fighting in Spain, but Portugal ?

Jasper, your remarks and enlightening pictures are, as always, of the best, and i thank you so much for that.

Well, i confess that, digesting the quoted provenance of this example as been Portuguese, is something that will keep me awake tonight .
If any of you Gentlemen wish to extend his opinion on such issue, i will gladly welcome it with great pleasure.

Just a note to report that, i find it interesting that this blade slightly widens in its last section. I wasn't expecting this feature in these swords or, at least, in this particular one.
Any ideas?


.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Fernando for acknowledging my post and the kind words. That means a lot to the old researcher here It was most rewarding to gather these notes, and even better to have had the great input from Jasper and Michael, which I have added to them.

I thought the blade seemed to widen toward the tip, but wasn't really paying enough attention as I was focused on the hilt. It seems to me that this type feature is like the 'yelman' on sabres which adds momentum to the slashing cut in additional weight at the end. On the Polish sabres with this feature I was once told that the widening was called by a Polish term which meant 'feather' in a wry way of referring to added weight.

I am very curious as well on the Portuguese attribution, and like you I knew of these Balkan troops fighting against Ottomans in Spain, but had not heard of these distinct basket hilt swords reaching Portugal.

All the best,
Jim

[cornelistromp]

Hi Fernando,

@ Jim,
a pleasure to meet you back on the forum, schiavona are your specialty, I believe!



I have consulted and updated my old schiavona knowledge and literature and have come to the conclusion that your schiavona is older as I originally expected.
There is an almost identical schiavona with a single-edged blade and similar hilt in the Stibbert Museum; inv 4873 and dated Venice 1620-1650.

Now that we're arrived at the Stibbert, I can not ignore the finest schiavona I know;
inv 2814 Veneto 1650, wonderful work of art.

So your Schiavona most probably comes from venice and I would date it without shame around 1650 latest.

best,
Jasper