ID Omani Jambiya

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Salam Ibrahim,

I disagree. Jambiya is an abreviation from an arab word done by collectors. The original word is JANBIYA or Jannabiya and it means (the weapon tuck on the side) Anyone speaking arabic wouldnt have a hard time knowing what Janbiya is.

As for Khanjar, I disagree, infact I dont think its an Arab word. It is likely a persian word but I am not 100% certain. The word khanjar, unlike Janbiya is used by the following: Kurds, Persians, Turks (Hancer) northern Arabs. While Janbiya seems to be more focused on Yemen and the south Arabian places.

Salaams A.alnakkas: That means 3 million Omani people have got it wrong then...? I will just go out and tell them Lofty ~ not be a moment...

Your detail on Janbiyya is of course perfectly correct though Khanjar appears to be Arabic.. perhaps a local Arabic word here...It occurs in the Funoon from an ancient dance completed with Khanjar so it goes back to 1400 years at least... The Khanjar did not appear in India til 500 years ago according to museum references and it is not an original Indian word.

The Khanjar and the Jambiyya (janbiya) are different styles clouded in time ...locked in design... from different countries.

Omanis dont have Jambiyyas and Yemenis dont have Khanjars. They dont have them and they dont use the words to describe their weapons. They do however know what each is and what both words mean !

Oman, however, uses Khanjar to describe Omani Khanjars and Yemen uses Jambiyya to describe Yemeni Jambiyyas.

We are all happy with that.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams A.alnakkas: That means 3 million Omani people have got it wrong then...? I will just go out and tell them Lofty ~ not be a moment...

Yes actually, they are wrong. The word Khanjar is a persian word. Like many many (even pre-islamic) persian words that were adopted by the arabs. This is nothing new.

The word cannot be reduced to any form like all arabic words. The only issue I have currently is not being able to back this up with academic research but then again nothing (Academic) can be found on the net. But I managed to find lists that include khanjar as one of the many words adopted from Persian. Regardless, I am a university student and we have Arabic professors, I'll get academic info soon just so you know am not pulling this one out of nowhere. :P

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Your detail on Janbiyya is of course perfectly correct though Khanjar appears to be Arabic.. perhaps a local Arabic word here...It occurs in the Funoon from an ancient dance completed with Khanjar so it goes back to 1400 years at least... The Khanjar did not appear in India til 500 years ago according to museum references and it is not an original Indian word.

I wasnt suggesting that Omani's use the term Janbiya. Rather that the term Janbiya (derived from jnb) is a pure arab word used by southern Arabs (fine, excluding omanis :-))

Also, whether India has this word or not is irrelevant since Indians have been adopting persian words aswell.

Now how about the Kurds and the Turks? or do they adopt the term from Oman?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Yes actually, they are wrong. The word Khanjar is a persian word. Like many many (even pre-islamic) persian words that were adopted by the arabs. This is nothing new.

The word cannot be reduced to any form like all arabic words. The only issue I have currently is not being able to back this up with academic research but then again nothing (Academic) can be found on the net. But I managed to find lists that include khanjar as one of the many words adopted from Persian. Regardless, I am a university student and we have Arabic professors, I'll get academic info soon just so you know am not pulling this one out of nowhere. :P



I wasnt suggesting that Omani's use the term Janbiya. Rather that the term Janbiya (derived from jnb) is a pure arab word used by southern Arabs (fine, excluding omanis :-))

Also, whether India has this word or not is irrelevant since Indians have been adopting persian words aswell.

Now how about the Kurds and the Turks? or do they adopt the term from Oman?

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ You may be right ?... I dont know Lofty you are the expert on Arabic Linguistics. I am still trying to fathom out where the word Kattara originated but I am not losing sleep about it. Passage of time ~ cross polination of linguistic terms ~ tribal tectonics~ incidental and accidental transmission of words through trade, war, geo political influence ~ who knows?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[A.alnakkas]

Salams Ibrahim (or is it Peter?) No, I am not suggesting that I am expert in arab linguistics, I studied it, but am no expert.

Kattara has more chance of being arabic then Khanjar.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Salams Ibrahim (or is it Peter?) No, I am not suggesting that I am expert in arab linguistics, I studied it, but am no expert.

Kattara has more chance of being arabic then Khanjar.

Salaams A.alnakkas~ No Lofty I'm Ibrahiim al Balooshi... unless you wish to converse with my senior business executive who is on leave in Jamaica until March 10 ! If you pm me I can give you his e mail.

Some think Kattara is a derivative of I think to date about 6 possible misconstrued words ... even the engish "cutter"

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Salam Ibrahim,

عبالي انت واحد ثاني السموحة ولد عمي:-)

Thats very possible regarding kattarah. But I wouldnt accept that immediately because there is an Arabic word "ktr كتر" that the following meanings can be derived from; the middle of (anything) the camel hump. The beam which hold the tent up. The hawdaj (female tent put over camels) and the high thing (high building etc)

So what do you think?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Salam Ibrahim,

عبالي انت واحد ثاني السموحة ولد عمي:-)

Thats very possible regarding kattarah. But I wouldnt accept that immediately because there is an Arabic word "ktr كتر" that the following meanings can be derived from; the middle of (anything) the camel hump. The beam which hold the tent up. The hawdaj (female tent put over camels) and the high thing (high building etc)

So what do you think?

Salaams A.alnakkas~ One thing is certain... Like frozen weapons systems the Arabic language gives a very accurate indicator to some of the detective work we are all doing.
I have a number of word search quandrys on my desk e.g. Khanjar, Kattarah, Sayf Yamani to name a few. Antony North explains fully the situation regarding weapons freeze on trusted old technology that has been retained in Arabia but I see no fully informative work on Arabic linguistics as obviously it exists as does slang and dialect particularly in regions with prior, poor communications such as Mussandam, Jebel Akhdar, The desert Rub al Qali and Yemen..

In this regard since the subject is Khanjar ~
Khanjar. Metropolitan Museum of Art ; "INDIA" by Stuart Cary Welch; Art and Culture 1300 to 1900. Page 303.

Quote "Khanjar is an Arabic word used in Islamic countries for different weapons etc. Khanjars were commonly used in India from about 1600."

I would rather like to push on with practical research at this point since I can see how contrasting viewpoints on word meaning will get us not very far and accepting the above commonly recognised facts we move forward.

As a tempting morsel of what is to come regarding the Omani Khanjar I am am about to unravel the mystery around the real reason for the bend in the scabbard so long erroneosly thought to be for balance and design. That may take some explaining ...but I am on it !

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.