Kattara for comments

[Jim McDougall]

Outstanding responses Ibrahiim, and it really is great to be expressing our ideas and perceptions not especially as debate, but establishing opinions on compiled material at hand. Naturally concerning matters regarding the specific history of Oman and its environs your command is understandably profound, and my interpretations are cursory as I am pretty much learning most of it as I go along. Most of my interest in the history of swords has always been primarily markings and symbolism, as well as understanding more on forms as they developed. Clearly we are focused on both here, so it becomes more fascinating as we move forward.

I understand what you mean on the heraldic type tradition with the old sayf, and am trying to get used to using these terms according to the parlance you are establishing here.....its hard though as of course the kattara term is so firmly emplaced from the many years of referencing these. In most cases with study of ethnographic weapons the semantics of terms in referring to various forms becomes maddening, and as once well described by Lee Jones, typically applied generally to sword, not otherwise specified. The sabre in Morocco usually termed 'nimcha' is more properly termed Moroccan sa'if...in India the Indo-Persian sabre with disc pommel is termed tulwar, but then so are Persian shamshirs in the Mughal courts. In the Sudan, we have called the broadsword the kaskara, but there it is simply known as sa'if. There are so many other instances of disparity in application of these terms for specific forms of weapons that it is almost futile to try to resolve effectively. I am pretty sure we could write a book on the instances of variations on edged weapon nomenclature and classification alone.

Returning to the tradition of the old sayf remaining in situ for literally a thousand years, in essence I understand what you mean, but agreed we have no certain idea what the 751AD sword actually looked like. It is agreed that most of the swords extant in Istanbul were probably rehilted, and again we agree 'probably' most, but still none have the hilt style of these old Omani sayf. I do know what Anthony North meant though, and it is true that very old weapon styles did remain present over long periods, but I think much of this is due to atavistic and revival type situations recalling old traditions, much in the heraldic sense you describe.
In the late 18th and through the 19th century, French military weapons brought forth many neo-classic designs and many were from old Roman sword types from ancient times. These forms transmitted into American examples and into the civilian sector with fraternal groups and Masonic organizations.

The biggest problem in studying various ethnographic weapon forms in trying to establish reliable continuum chronologically showing thier evolution and development. Many forms familiar to us such as the kastane of Sri Lanka; flyssa of Algeria; the so called 'Black Sea yataghan' ; and numerous others are late comers, some of which can only be traced to early 19th century, thier seemingly ancient style association compellingly connected, but with no linear progression to support those origins.

There really does not seem to be any particular reason to presume that the cylindrical hilt evolved in Muscat over the interior regions, and there does not seem to be any particular tradition for guardless swords in either. Clearly your perspective on the sword and buckler concept is well placed as these type swords were light and fast, and any guard or parry was to the buckler. I believe if I recall that it is established that both of these hilt forms existed concurrently though of course the cylindrical type came in around late 17th or 18th century. The silver sheathing embellishment seems to typically be absent on examples of the old sayf which appear, and less common but does exist on the cylinder hilt type.

I believe that the flexible blade was key to the cylindrical hilt form used for the sword dance, but that it was not essential to all of these type sayf. Much of the presence of these was toward the fashion in wear, and I believe that these were worn as key accoutrements of status by influential individuals. Case in point are the curved blade types which are seen in todays Omani emblem along with the distinctive khanjhar, also a key element of fashion and status. Again, this is simply my own perception at this point based on what I have understood from material I have researched.

Good points on the sayf Yemeni and agree that that classification term while typically suggesting where the sword was made (per Kennedy, op.cit.) may equally simply mean, where it is from. As we have discussed, trade blades, primarily German were coming into Yemen regions in the 19th century, and probably in some degree earlier via other trade connections. It seems to me that most European blades had a good degree of flexibility, though I am not certain they reached the degree of flexibility of the halab blades. It would seem that there would be a degree of selection as far as the blade used, and that those intended for these sword dances were not necessarily those which may have carried heavier straight or curved blades. If I understand correctly the curved swords are not used in the sword dance.

Your note on the Zanzibar 'nimcha' brought back memories. These are actually as I understand also termed sa'if and are typically like the Moroccan hilts with similar quillon system except they have a vertical counterguard ring. When I first acquired one of these many years ago it was one of a number acquired in Yemen. I had been researching the curious H type hilt sword Burton and Demmin (1884 and 1877 respectively) show next to the Omani cylinder hilt, and describe it as 'the other type Zanzibar sword'. I was subsequently able to show that that particular type, through references with Buttin, was actually a Moroccan s'boula and had been taken by these authors to have been Zanzibari. Clearly another situation of trade route diffusion reflecting the contact between these diverse regions through trade entrepots across vast distances.

Returning to the old sayf type, by analogy I would note the Indian khanda, often termed 'firangi' if it is with European or 'foreign' blade. These came from a relatively ancient sword style which is seen iconographically on ancient friezes in temples. It is important to note that these swords are very much revered in the Hindu religion , and by form these venerated swords are very much a part of religious ceremony in many cases. These also often have certain elements of thier structure reflecting architectural and sacred shapes and designs of the temples along with deep meanings imbued in the weapon itself.
Rather than remaining entirely static in design, these evolved into what has become known as the Hindu basket hilt, in which the basic structure remains but in more developed form. While suggested that European hilt forms led to this development, it appears to me that it was more a gradual developmnent of the basic form. As with many traditional ethnographic sword forms, thy remain essentially the same, but with often extremely subtle nuances which can help in establishing the date or period they are from.

Obviously this analogy does not necessarily prove anything toward the discussion on the old sayf as far as whether they remained the same from the beginning presumed at around 751 until the18th century, but I thought worthy of note as an interesting parallel.

As always, I am very much enjoying our discussion, and the in depth look into the history surrounding these weapons. Thank you so much, and look forward to progressing onward.

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim, Great points. Thank you for delving into the reference books.

I would like to address the subjects Terminology, National Emblem, Dancing Swords and Curved Kattara. Please be advised that this post carries a bombshell suggestion (or two) on the entire subject...

Terminology. Sayf is the old Arabic word for Sword. Kattara came on a few hundred years ago say in 1750 from who knows where? It is not an Arabic word. This raises the question that before 1750 what did they call such curved swords present in Oman like Shamshir etc ? The answer is they called all swords Sayf !

Where did the word Kattara come from? It occured to me that there are a number of swords that sound very like Kattara such as Kastana, Kaskara or Katana. Taking the most likely line of influence African influence rather seems possible. The outsider from Japan though it is a massive distance gets on the radar screen because of the shape of the hilt. Although Omanis showed the Portuguese the sea route to China I have up to now not looked to that region for influence and on comparing handle construction there are many differences not to mention no Tsuba on the Omani Hilt. I therefore only mention it on passing.

What is odd is the appearance of the long hilt on both Sayf and Kattara at around the same time and I ask the question which came first and why?

National Flag. The fact that the two crossed curved Kattara appears on the national flag may indicate its priority.

Dancing Swords. We speak about the Long Flexible Sayf but it burns a hole in my research regarding its fighting prowess. My own style of Martial Art is Kyokushinkai though to mix it up a little I trained with Japanese and Chinese weapons for a few years. I have to say I have never rated the long flexible Omani Sayf though I have seen demonstrations of it slicing through various products (that weren't fighting back!) but only with the sweet part of the blade not the end section. I can not find a single event in history which the weapon was used in a fight skirmish or war. There are good reasons for this... one in particular... because it's not a fighting sword. It's a dancing sword.

As a pageant only sword it explains why we have been tilting at windmills and may be why the European Trade Blade is entirely spurious. It may also go someway to explain why the dancing sword was never made in exotic steel with wootz in Oman although I know there are one or two around probably special commissions out of India.

For this reason I support the appearance of the curved Kattara first perhaps around 1750 but not displacing the short battle sword at all. The Short Omani Sayf remained as the weapon of war (this is a formidable chop, hack, slash and stabbing short sword) though because of gunpowder weapons its eventual decline was assured. We were right to consider the two swords being used over a few hundred years, but I reason, one is the fighting stiff sayf while other flexible sayf is for displays and dancing only. The use of the same shield is purely convenience.

The take off of the long hilt onto the Funoon dancing sword was therefore entirely natural. The Kattara curved single edged weapon, on the other hand, is a real killer and in fact is more the "chop chop" executioner weapon and worn more as a badge of office whereas in fact the flexible dancing Sayf is not ...

The flexible dancing Sayf never attained the Iconic status of the Old Sayf, The Kattara, The Shamshir or the Zanzibar Nimcha though it was the dancing sword and is still in the Funoon. Before the advent of the flexible Sayf the old Battle sword was used (though more cumbersome) in the traditional Funoon (as in fact was the Khanjar though the later in Salalah).

I see the transition from Africa possibly through the slave trade of the Kattara curved style. I can see how curved trade blades have been re-hilted onto curved Kattara.

The Omani Flexible Dancing Sword (Sayf) is not a weapon per se. and never was: The European Trade link to this sword has thus collapsed. shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

After Note; Pictures 1, 2; Showing below a possible transition of hilt form with influence from Red Sea / Yemen weapons on the eventual transformation of the Flexible Omani Dancing Sayf and in aproximate parallel timewise with the Curved Kattara design.

Picture 3, 4; Some different designs of Curved Kattara (there are others)

[A.alnakkas]

Hello All,

Ibrahim, I have done some research regarding the term "Kattara كتارة" and it seems to be a term more focused on the shuhooh tribe? As you said, it seems to refer only to the curved Omani saber but the name "kattara" was also used as a person name; For example, the tribe of Ibn Kattarah (I need to research this tribe)

The term as you said, does not seem Arabic so its rather interesting!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hello All,

Ibrahim, I have done some research regarding the term "Kattara كتارة" and it seems to be a term more focused on the shuhooh tribe? As you said, it seems to refer only to the curved Omani saber but the name "kattara" was also used as a person name; For example, the tribe of Ibn Kattarah (I need to research this tribe)

The term as you said, does not seem Arabic so its rather interesting!

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ I think that is interesting and the name Sayf also is a persons name. The Shihu are a very interesting tribe and their main family group is called Shehe. They give the name to a short knife that tucks in the belt and used in other closeby Omani areas (in much of Northern Oman) behind the Khanjar though technically they don't wear tha Khanjar prefering the Jers axe instead. They straddle the Oman UAE border and appear linked originally to a Persian tribe... as is the axe (Luristani linked as I see it) Today the straight Sayf flexible dancing sword is made there and in other centres like Nizwa.

I was reviewing the vast load of material already generated and looking for various links when I suddenly realised that the Long Flexible Sayf was in fact not a weapon as such but "a dancing sword."
What various dignatories visiting the region in the 1800s meant when for example they referred to ~Scotish Claymore style of weapon at Hormuz ...and in other parts of Oman ~ 2 handed weapons... capable of chopping off a limb...3 feet long swords etc is the Old Sayf often in the area of 2feet 6inches and 2 feet 8inches. The dancing sword is nearly 4 feet long. The hitting/cutting power of the old weapon is far superior as its heavy thick wing shaped and razor sharp blade would slice through much more efficiently. Then I got into a lot of conversation with old gentlemen and realised that though nothing was written down the flexible sword was simply a dancing sword. It is important all the same but now I can see where it slides into the overall plan... and why it has no European Trade Blade link at all.

The curved Kattara of course is totally different.

Thank you for your post.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely excellent summation Ibrahiim!!! I think you have put that together spot on, and I think this is basically the best solution to the kattara/sayf conundrum thus far. Naturally other fine points will be added, but this seems to plausibly describe this grouping of sword types as contemporarily used and with varying application.
On the kattara term, though it is a reach, in the northern parts of India and Afghanistan there is a type of dagger used by Kalash tribes usually in Chitral and of course this diffused widely.....it was called a 'katara' which seems to be another term in various linguistic parlance used for daggers and swords interchangeably. Remember that in these regions particularly it is often hard to define exactly where 'sword' category ends and dagger or knife begins...the 'khyber knife' for example is a huge butcher knife the size of a sword (also termed Salawar yataghan though it has nothing to do with the traditionally specified yataghan).
Also, the term katar for the well known transverse bar daggers seems to derive from a Hindu word for 'cut'. Perhaps these terms may have entered Arab parlance via Omani presence in Baluchistan and Indian trade ?

Outstanding work here guys!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Absolutely excellent summation Ibrahiim!!! I think you have put that together spot on, and I think this is basically the best solution to the kattara/sayf conundrum thus far. Naturally other fine points will be added, but this seems to plausibly describe this grouping of sword types as contemporarily used and with varying application.
On the kattara term, though it is a reach, in the northern parts of India and Afghanistan there is a type of dagger used by Kalash tribes usually in Chitral and of course this diffused widely.....it was called a 'katara' which seems to be another term in various linguistic parlance used for daggers and swords interchangeably. Remember that in these regions particularly it is often hard to define exactly where 'sword' category ends and dagger or knife begins...the 'khyber knife' for example is a huge butcher knife the size of a sword (also termed Salawar yataghan though it has nothing to do with the traditionally specified yataghan).
Also, the term katar for the well known transverse bar daggers seems to derive from a Hindu word for 'cut'. Perhaps these terms may have entered Arab parlance via Omani presence in Baluchistan and Indian trade ?

Outstanding work here guys!!!

All the best,
Jim

Salaams Jim ~ Great reply. Great support. Thanks for your confirmation so far. I hope people can understand the vagueness that decends upon anything virtually before 1970 here... It is like entering a Mediaeval tunnel. Myth, superstition and unsubatantiated information fog the screen. I agree that we appear to be on the button with the dancing sword. I am also convinced about the Old Battle Sayf.

Regarding the curved Kattara. I agree that it could be a bastardised foreign word even from the English "cutter" or the Hindi "Katar" or qudurrah or from the Sri Lankan "kastane" or more than likely since I see a link with the Zanzibar hub and slavery off the African sword group (Kaskara?). As lofty points out there is also the possibility via a name in the Shuhooh tribe which is similar; so the book is open on that.

What I find interesting is that the Forum gave this particular tree a really good shake and eventually the facts have popped out. We even started off with the wrong terminology and corrected that in mid stream! Before this the entire world of swords was in my opinion "totally in the dark" over this important issue of the dancing sword and way out of timescale on the Old Omani Battle Sword and its important significance.
What is amazing is that the same weapon designed in or before 751 AD not only lasted up to the arrival of the dancing sword and curved Kattara but beyond that into the 20th Century though by then attaining an Iconic status (and gradually overtaken by the advent of firearms) but still the primary fighting blade of Oman for more than 1,200 years.
This BATTLESWORD weapon was a virtual heraldic symbol to the original Omani Ibathi religious style and has attained honorific Iconic proportions having been modified over the hilt in the decorative style of the Royal Khanjar for the al bu Saiid Dynasty.

The Old Omani Battlesword "Sayf" and its shield "Terrs" are classic living examples of weapon freeze.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ I think that is interesting and the name Sayf also is a persons name. The Shihu are a very interesting tribe and their main family group is called Shehe. They give the name to a short knife that tucks in the belt and used in other closeby Omani areas (in much of Northern Oman) behind the Khanjar though technically they don't wear tha Khanjar prefering the Jers axe instead. They straddle the Oman UAE border and appear linked originally to a Persian tribe... as is the axe (Luristani linked as I see it) Today the straight Sayf flexible dancing sword is made there and in other centres like Nizwa.

Thank you for your post.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hey Ibrahim,

I disagree in linking alShuhuh to a persian origin. They are arabs who have been in arabia and in the region since before Islam. It is said that they are called alShuhuh (the greedy ones or the broke ones.) because during the reign of Caliph Abu Bakr (RA) they stopped paying the zakkat along with other tribes from that region and they were fought and chased to the mountains which they still reside.

One can get an understanding of this story (whether its authentic or not) by checking the meaning of the word Shuh in a dictionary :-)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey Ibrahim,

I disagree in linking alShuhuh to a persian origin. They are arabs who have been in arabia and in the region since before Islam. It is said that they are called alShuhuh (the greedy ones or the broke ones.) because during the reign of Caliph Abu Bakr (RA) they stopped paying the zakkat along with other tribes from that region and they were fought and chased to the mountains which they still reside.

One can get an understanding of this story (whether its authentic or not) by checking the meaning of the word Shuh in a dictionary :-)

Salaams Lofty ~ Good point. Certainly they are pre Islamic and today they straddle the border of the UAE and OMAN. There is a total breakdown on the tribe somewhere and I will dig it up... There are a number of key families notably the Shehe ( I also note there are about 5 sects also underlining their sub tribal independence). They are fiercely independent even today. The small axe is very similar to the Luristani axe that it is tempting to draw a conclusion and their own linguistic form is I believe Farsi linked.

About Jerrs axes. The other almost same shaped axe appears with Bedouin in the Omani Wahiba sands region used as a camel stick and a weapon (and called a Quddum) though it is undecorated and on a shaft roughly hewn by the owner as opposed to the Mussandam style which is made by the axe maker complete. Are the two areas tribes previously linked?

Swords. So far as swords are concerned in the Shehu region they seem to have a late production of Omani Sayf only in the last 30 years or so... but that is largely heresay. I recall you indicating that the term Kattara was possibly from that area but I cannot find a link yet.

Work Knife. They also give their main family name to a small work dagger called a "shehe" and though they don't wear Khanjars up there as they favour the Jerrs axe ... they do carry this knife on a simple waistbelt whereas interestingly that knife has found its way as a work knife onto Khanjars in Northern Oman... though generally the preferred work knife is a silver worked antique English Butter Knife (Sheffield Steel ) or the German equivalent from Solingen.

I think it safer of me to describe this unusual group as probably originating from a group of Arab pre Islamic tribes possibly displaced by war, famine or other causes. The name is fascinating and further study is inviting.

On an historical note Richardson and Dorr in Volume 1 of their Craft Herritage of Oman describe the Jerrs Axe as almost identical to a bronze age axe from neighboring area tombs of Qidfa including the design patterns of herringbone, circles, dots and triangle motifs also paralleling designs on stone vessels at the site dated to the second half of the second milenium BC. Pottery also points to a link since it is proven that hand and wheel turning techniques have continued there in the Mussandam which originate in Messopotamia as early as 3000 B.C.etc.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams.. Following up the Shehe detail with Lofty I note that Bertram Thomas more or less linked the tribe with Yemen and the dialect is Kumzari which is an unwritten form. Slightly in contrast Wiki notes the similarity to Persian. I'm not certain if precise dating of the tribal blend can ever be achieved. Linguistics wise It is more likely to be geographical dialectic influence. I would however side with an Arab identity as this appears to be their main form.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.