Wilah nr 4 for identification

A. G. Maisey · 7th January 2012, 09:40 PM

Penangsang--- no, not necessarily Kraton mpu made. Just because a woman might be attached to a Kraton this does not make of her somebody of sufficient wealth or rank to be able to use the services of an mpu who is a part of the Kraton hierarchy.

Many abdi dalem are really quite poor people, and even a lot of genuine blood aristocrats are not wealthy, and struggle to make ends meet.

Detlef --- I think this blade has been reshaped, I would not consider this a patrem.

I'm a little surprised that nobody knew the purpose of the patrem, I thought it was something that was general knowledge. To understand the need for a woman to follow her husband or master in death one needs to understand the mindset that applied in pre-Islamic Jawa, and which was continued in Bali until the early 20th century. This mindset was continued to a degree in Javanese kraton society, even after the dominance of Islam, and was one of the reasons for the the discord between Mataram and the clergy which resulted in the massacres of the 17th century. Even today kraton society in Central Jawa reflects a Hindu-Buddhist essence in many respects.

Some insight into the way in which women saw the following of husband or lord into the next world can be gained from "Bali's Early Days", A.A.GDE Putra Agung, ISBN 978-979-1173-13-1

Sajen · 7th January 2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Detlef --- I think this blade has been reshaped, I would not consider this a patrem.

Thank you Alan, you confirm what I have thought already.

Regards,

Detlef

Harley · 22nd January 2012, 09:30 PM

This is the sheath a couple of days ago, when i saw the picture i found the edge on top and the curl to thick, so i am gonna change that.
I was not easy to do it in one piece, but it was worth the afford.
The hilt i made a couple of weeks back, not very good job, but i have to find a better frais? for the dremel.
Is this a sort of hilt that would be used on this keris, if not, what kind will?

regards,
Ben

A. G. Maisey · 22nd January 2012, 10:07 PM

Here are a couple of examples for you Harley.

The scabbard is a good quality, classical, Surakarta sandang walikat.

The two hilts are typical classic sandang walikat, however, these days a great many collectors use the sandang walikat scabbard form as a vehicle to display a finely carved hilt

Harley · 22nd January 2012, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The scabbard is a good quality, classical, Surakarta sandang walikat.

If the one in your picture is a Surakarta sandang walikat sheath, i hope the one i made is the right choice for this blade?
I can never have enough examples

, thank you Alan.

regards,
Ben

A. G. Maisey · 22nd January 2012, 11:40 PM

Yes Ben, yours is OK, but take a close look at the front of the scabbard I've posted.

I've seen worse sandang walikats than yours, made in Jawa, by tukang wrongkos, but I do think you could improve the flow and refinement of your SW.

Sajen · 22nd January 2012, 11:56 PM

Hi Ben,

here one more, like you see know Alan the collector world very well!!

Sorry for the hairs on the chair but my cat like to use it when I am absent.

Regards,

Detlef

22nd January 2012, 09:30 PM	#3
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	This is the sheath a couple of days ago, when i saw the picture i found the edge on top and the curl to thick, so i am gonna change that. I was not easy to do it in one piece, but it was worth the afford. The hilt i made a couple of weeks back, not very good job, but i have to find a better frais? for the dremel. Is this a sort of hilt that would be used on this keris, if not, what kind will? regards, Ben Attached Images

22nd January 2012, 10:07 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Here are a couple of examples for you Harley. The scabbard is a good quality, classical, Surakarta sandang walikat. The two hilts are typical classic sandang walikat, however, these days a great many collectors use the sandang walikat scabbard form as a vehicle to display a finely carved hilt Attached Images

22nd January 2012, 11:56 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,274	Hi Ben, here one more, like you see know Alan the collector world very well!! Sorry for the hairs on the chair but my cat like to use it when I am absent. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

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7th January 2012, 09:40 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Penangsang--- no, not necessarily Kraton mpu made. Just because a woman might be attached to a Kraton this does not make of her somebody of sufficient wealth or rank to be able to use the services of an mpu who is a part of the Kraton hierarchy. Many abdi dalem are really quite poor people, and even a lot of genuine blood aristocrats are not wealthy, and struggle to make ends meet. Detlef --- I think this blade has been reshaped, I would not consider this a patrem. I'm a little surprised that nobody knew the purpose of the patrem, I thought it was something that was general knowledge. To understand the need for a woman to follow her husband or master in death one needs to understand the mindset that applied in pre-Islamic Jawa, and which was continued in Bali until the early 20th century. This mindset was continued to a degree in Javanese kraton society, even after the dominance of Islam, and was one of the reasons for the the discord between Mataram and the clergy which resulted in the massacres of the 17th century. Even today kraton society in Central Jawa reflects a Hindu-Buddhist essence in many respects. Some insight into the way in which women saw the following of husband or lord into the next world can be gained from "Bali's Early Days", A.A.GDE Putra Agung, ISBN 978-979-1173-13-1

22nd January 2012, 11:40 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Yes Ben, yours is OK, but take a close look at the front of the scabbard I've posted. I've seen worse sandang walikats than yours, made in Jawa, by tukang wrongkos, but I do think you could improve the flow and refinement of your SW.