Tschinke Wheellock Rifle for Comment

fernando · 22nd November 2011, 10:17 PM

Very nice gun Rick, no doubt !
You sure have a circle of acquaintances who hold the most interesting examples

.

Fernando K · 23rd November 2011, 12:52 PM

Hola:

Me temo que falta la palanca para armar el mecanismo de disparo, Justamente, iba colocada en el agujero que se vé en la placa que cubre el resorte (spring) de la rueda.

¿que es esa palanca que está fijada al disparador (trigger)?

Hi
I'm afraid it lacks the lever to arm the trigger mechanism, precisely, was placed in the hole you see in the plate covering the spring of the wheel.

What is the lever that is attached to the trigger ?
Fernando K

.

rickystl · 23rd November 2011, 02:26 PM

Hi Fernando!! The owner says he bought it at a gun show in Louisville, Kentucky USA about four months ago. A most unlikely place.

He mentioned that he might be interested in selling it sometime next year. I would surely like to own this gun. But I fear his asking price.

Can't wait to see more photos.

Hi Fernando K !!! Very good observation on your part. The gun has an external main spring.
The bar at the rear of the trigger is an early form of adjustable trigger. Very unique. I've never seen one before on a gun this early. The owner said he would show me how it works when I get to view the gun again next month.

Rick.

Matchlock · 24th November 2011, 04:43 AM

Hi Rick,

I'm afraid to say that this is in no case a characteristic mid-2nd half Silesian/Polish Tschinke ...

The mechanism is of Tschinke mid-17th c. type alright, but the rest of the gun is way too heavily built and too short at the same time. If you wish me to I'll post images of characteristic 1630's-40's Tschinkes. I'm almost sure sure your barrel is shorter, heavier and of unusually large (rifled?) caliber. The average Tschinke calber is of 9-13 mm rifled bore - they were ladies' birding guns after all.

Best, Michael

rickystl · 24th November 2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Rick,

I'm afraid to say that this is in no case a characteristic mid-2nd half Silesian/Polish Tschinke ...

The mechanism is of Tschinke mid-17th c. type alright, but the rest of the gun is way too heavily built and too short at the same time. If you wish me to I'll post images of characteristic 1630's-40's Tschinkes. I'm almost sure sure your barrel is shorter, heavier and of unusually large (rifled?) caliber. The average Tschinke calber is of 9-13 mm rifled bore - they were ladies' birding guns after all.

Best, Michael

Hi Michael. I very much agree with your assesment. I've actually held three original Tschinke rifles, and viewed many photos in reference books. The three I inspected had the covered wheel. And, as you said, have longer, slim, and smaller caliber barrels. As well, the stock architecture is very different. Having held this piece, it looks like it was made as a larger caliber hunting rifle utilizing a Tschinke lock. (?)
The index card attached to the trigger guard had a description of what the owner "thinks" he has. Unfortunately, my aging memory can't recall the information on the card. However, I should receive this along with the additional photos over the weekend and will Post here.
Michael: Thanks to your expertise, we will be able to advise him a more accurate assesment of what he really owns. This should be fun.

Rick.

Matchlock · 24th November 2011, 08:18 PM

Hi Rick,

That's exaktly what it is: An early 18th c. dubious 'wheellock' rifle mounted with a mid to late-17th c. Tschinke lock. The trigger and trigger guard are of late 18th c. form and do not belong either. I'm afraid it's a crudely composite piece which in no way can be called a 'Tschinke' ...

Honestly, I wouldn' touch it!

In order to make sure what characteristic Silesian (Teschen, Polish) Tschinkes look like I posted a few images.

Please note the typical shapes of the butt stock and the lock mechanism! The one in the bottom image is a rare Italian version with two wheellock mechanisms on the same lockplate, for firing superimposed loads!

Best,
Michael

rickystl · 25th November 2011, 11:17 AM

Hi Michael.

I think you nailed it!! Obviously it is NOT a Tschinke rifle. The three Tschinke's I've held have stocks that are exactly like the ones in the photos you posted here (although not nearly in as good condition as the photos). Thanks for posting these.
Yes, the trigger and guard never looked right. And the "adjustable" trigger??
As you say, I'm sure this is a later made piece. Still, it will be interesting to see the additional photos. I'll let him know what he really owns. (It's OK. He is a nice guy

One thing this gun does show is how long the wheellock remained popular in Europen civilian hunting circles. Too bad it's an abstract. Thanks Michael. I'll post the additional photos when I receive them. I just remembered........there's a local gun show this weekend. I might see him there? Rick.

23rd November 2011, 12:52 PM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hola: Me temo que falta la palanca para armar el mecanismo de disparo, Justamente, iba colocada en el agujero que se vé en la placa que cubre el resorte (spring) de la rueda. ¿que es esa palanca que está fijada al disparador (trigger)? Hi I'm afraid it lacks the lever to arm the trigger mechanism, precisely, was placed in the hole you see in the plate covering the spring of the wheel. What is the lever that is attached to the trigger ? Fernando K . Last edited by fernando; 23rd November 2011 at 06:02 PM. Reason: Translation improvement

24th November 2011, 08:18 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Rick, That's exaktly what it is: An early 18th c. dubious 'wheellock' rifle mounted with a mid to late-17th c. Tschinke lock. The trigger and trigger guard are of late 18th c. form and do not belong either. I'm afraid it's a crudely composite piece which in no way can be called a 'Tschinke' ... Honestly, I wouldn' touch it! In order to make sure what characteristic Silesian (Teschen, Polish) Tschinkes look like I posted a few images. Please note the typical shapes of the butt stock and the lock mechanism! The one in the bottom image is a rare Italian version with two wheellock mechanisms on the same lockplate, for firing superimposed loads! Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 27th November 2011 at 10:57 AM.

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22nd November 2011, 10:17 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Very nice gun Rick, no doubt ! You sure have a circle of acquaintances who hold the most interesting examples .

23rd November 2011, 02:26 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hi Fernando!! The owner says he bought it at a gun show in Louisville, Kentucky USA about four months ago. A most unlikely place. He mentioned that he might be interested in selling it sometime next year. I would surely like to own this gun. But I fear his asking price. Can't wait to see more photos. Hi Fernando K !!! Very good observation on your part. The gun has an external main spring. The bar at the rear of the trigger is an early form of adjustable trigger. Very unique. I've never seen one before on a gun this early. The owner said he would show me how it works when I get to view the gun again next month. Rick.

24th November 2011, 04:43 AM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Rick, I'm afraid to say that this is in no case a characteristic mid-2nd half Silesian/Polish Tschinke ... The mechanism is of Tschinke mid-17th c. type alright, but the rest of the gun is way too heavily built and too short at the same time. If you wish me to I'll post images of characteristic 1630's-40's Tschinkes. I'm almost sure sure your barrel is shorter, heavier and of unusually large (rifled?) caliber. The average Tschinke calber is of 9-13 mm rifled bore - they were ladies' birding guns after all. Best, Michael

25th November 2011, 11:17 AM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hi Michael. I think you nailed it!! Obviously it is NOT a Tschinke rifle. The three Tschinke's I've held have stocks that are exactly like the ones in the photos you posted here (although not nearly in as good condition as the photos). Thanks for posting these. Yes, the trigger and guard never looked right. And the "adjustable" trigger?? As you say, I'm sure this is a later made piece. Still, it will be interesting to see the additional photos. I'll let him know what he really owns. (It's OK. He is a nice guy One thing this gun does show is how long the wheellock remained popular in Europen civilian hunting circles. Too bad it's an abstract. Thanks Michael. I'll post the additional photos when I receive them. I just remembered........there's a local gun show this weekend. I might see him there? Rick.