Kattara for comments

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 14th November 2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Thanks for posting Michael. The reason I'm interested in this mark is that I've previously commented on the intriguing superficial similarities between wide native made takouba blades and the old style Omani kattara.

I noticed these little cross marks on kattara the other day and was immediately reminded of an obscure, but possible mark on a takouba blade of mine. It might just be the most oddly shaped bit of pitting, but the similarities struck me.

I am probably shooting in the dark here and my "mark" could be nothing at all. But I like to dream a little sometimes!

Cheers,

Iain

Salaams Iain, Its a bit out of line centrally so I think its an accidental, possibly combat strike but interesting. Just looking at Islamic decorative style on rugs to compare with possible blade marks the cross is used extensively in rug making and appears to represent candle light.. as a welcoming sign. It occurs in Hachlu door hanging rugs and elsewhere on the silkroad. Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
ps These blades like the one at Michaels appear to be thick non flexible but I await a full photo..

Michael Blalock · 14th November 2011, 10:51 PM

Ibrahiim,
There are some photos on the following post.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4328

There is another symbol on the other side. I will try and post a better photo later. And yes blade is quite stiff but it is long, and sharp as a razor. The wire work on the hilt is amazing.

Michael Blalock · 15th November 2011, 12:45 AM

Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade.
While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 15th November 2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade.
While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade.

Salaams Michael,
Nice pictures thanks. I can see a series of marks at the throat below the cross which could indicate a date? Or they could be accidental.

When you say not stiff ... does the blade flex through 90 degrees easily or are we looking at a fairly rigid example as at # 1 ?

Are these orb and cross Peter Cull marks without the orb... or fake strikes? I mean "copied strikes" as fake is a bit steep. On the other hand are these cross strikes not simply part of a bigger insignia that didn't get completed such as the tower mark which does seem to have a similar tool mark in its foundations?

The tower mark looks familiar..There is a full tower mark at #84 and the cross marks look identical to the # 1. I wonder however, if in fact, the tower mark on your sword is a variation on the God is Great insignia as a representative piece of calligraphy(albeit with mallet and chisel)

Regards Ibrahiim

Michael Blalock · 15th November 2011, 04:59 PM

The marks on the last picture of the blade do look like remants of lettering to me but I can't make anything out. Maybe the guys at the FBI who can read filed off serial numbers could read it. I could try various spectrum of light.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 16th November 2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

The marks on the last picture of the blade do look like remants of lettering to me but I can't make anything out. Maybe the guys at the FBI who can read filed off serial numbers could read it. I could try various spectrum of light.

Salaams... What you mean the Forum Blade Investigators?

Regards Ibrahiim

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th November 2011, 04:13 PM

Salaams All,

The investigation continues and we are at a crossroads in the research rather than a stall point. Various additional information has come to light including the alternative use of a sandal as a shield in the absence of the Terrs and some indicators of stamp maker marks on old Kattara from the interior plus a very recent pair of perhaps old 18th C curved Sayf blades possibly from Salalah with identical "god is great stamps" different to any seen so far.

I offer the following framework so far uncovered to date;

We have concluded that extensive evidence indicates an early Abbasid influenced straight sword, rigid, with turned down quillons, 8 sided hilt and Islamic pommel with occasionally blade dots; Sword variously Shown on this thread. Date of design and inception 751 AD , parallel with the appearance in Oman of The First Immam, Ibn Julanda. The early Kattara used as the "Heraldic" Ibathi Sword used against the Abbasids garrisoned in Oman whose Caliphs in Iraq vehemently disagreed with the formation of the splinter group Ibathi sect.

Thus; The Omani Sword known as Kattara used in unison with the Terrs Shield and displayed in the Funoon as both an ancient ritual parade sword dance and mimic martial dance notably in The Razha; The Sword Dance... in the mid 8thC. A.D.

The sword went on for a thousand years or more (Gaining Iconic status in the last 200 years) though perhaps in the 17th C a replacement thinner lighter more flexible blade appeared possibly from European sources. It is likely that with the advent of gunpowder sparked the demise of bladed weapons though the loss of expertise in making original wing shaped cross sectioned blades may also have led to the cheaper replacements. In fact the story could be a reversal of that since all males over about 16 years of age are eligible to yield a Kattara and that more men now have a sword for ritual dancing than ever before.

Some time later perhaps in the 18th ? 19th C a complete sword appeared i.e. blade hilt and pommel as one piece. This blade was very Flexible capable of a 90 degree bend from the spatulate tip. It was to revolutionise the Funoon. It has been suggested it is a European Trade Blade though no solid proof exists. The blades carry a variety of blademarks many of which are fake or copies. No ships manifests have yet been discovered of numbers of blades in the hold for delivery to Oman. It is suggested by association that since Africa was awash with German blades then Oman must also have been. Yet no evidence exists, no other place in the Red Sea, Africa, Yemen India or Iran sport these blades. They are entirely specific to Oman and no blade stamps are conclusive as to origin. Tantalising blades similar but not flexible and much thicker seem to come from Saudia and or Yemen as #1 on this thread which may or may not be related and carry distinctive blade marks suggested as being either a european copy (Peter Cull cross) or Islamic forms of Akhbar(great) short calligraphy form of the god is great stamp.

This was a dancing sword and could be buzzed in the air. Whats more it was peculiar to Oman only and the reason why it turned up in Zanzibar was because Oman owned it.. The sword encompassed the Terrs and inherited the name Kattara.

The point of the research is to try to define where did the new blades originate and when?

By normal trade inside Oman, through and between souqs, recent blades (aprox within the last 100 years) appear. Two known sources are Ras Al Khaimah and Salalah. It is likely that other centres have knocked out suitably made blades including Nizwa and Muscat. How much has leaked into Oman from Yemen, Persia, India, Sri Lanka, Zanzibar, Africa, Europe or other centres is unknown but is probably substantial. It could be that in searching for a mass influx at some point in time in the last 200 years of a vast quantity of blades is in fact chasing shadows but we are not alone in history and perhaps the art of "tilting at windmills" is still alive.

The search continues.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I will show the pair of Salalah Sayf in my next letter ..In detail... It may come as a shock to some...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 4th January 2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade.
While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade.

Salaams Michael Blalock ~ Please SEE #6 on Ricks "Maker Mark ID" upon which I have commented on that thread.

Compare the Algerian Gun breach mark to your blade mark. Translated it appears to say Amal...(Acccording to Dom) and it looks very like the mark on your sword... All the letters are there stacked in almost identical stylised form. Thus the lid appears to be popped on origin of your Sword Mark... Algeria !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I ask the question of the cross on the sword as being a short form of this mark.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th February 2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Michael Blalock ~ Please SEE #6 on Ricks "Maker Mark ID" upon which I have commented on that thread.

Compare the Algerian Gun breach mark to your blade mark. Translated it appears to say Amal...(Acccording to Dom) and it looks very like the mark on your sword... All the letters are there stacked in almost identical stylised form. Thus the lid appears to be popped on origin of your Sword Mark... Algeria !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I ask the question of the cross on the sword as being a short form of this mark.

Salaams Michael Blalock ~ I continue to work in the background upon this thread and noted that you had as yet not replied to the above which appears to solve the question pointing to Algeria as a probable stamp for both sword and gun marks; in a short, stacked form of arabic script. This is not to say that other countries did not use the same stamp format. It is however an indicator. I have not seen that "specific stamp" on Omani work. What this suggests is that your sword traversed the Red Sea and became formatted with a broad Omani Style but that its origins are elsewhere.
As a side issue I wonder if the very short form of this stamp is in fact a very simple cross placed by the owner rather than the maker?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

15th November 2011, 12:45 AM	#3
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade. While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade. Attached Images

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14th November 2011, 10:51 PM	#2
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Ibrahiim, There are some photos on the following post. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4328 There is another symbol on the other side. I will try and post a better photo later. And yes blade is quite stiff but it is long, and sharp as a razor. The wire work on the hilt is amazing.

15th November 2011, 04:59 PM	#5
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	The marks on the last picture of the blade do look like remants of lettering to me but I can't make anything out. Maybe the guys at the FBI who can read filed off serial numbers could read it. I could try various spectrum of light.

20th November 2011, 04:13 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All, The investigation continues and we are at a crossroads in the research rather than a stall point. Various additional information has come to light including the alternative use of a sandal as a shield in the absence of the Terrs and some indicators of stamp maker marks on old Kattara from the interior plus a very recent pair of perhaps old 18th C curved Sayf blades possibly from Salalah with identical "god is great stamps" different to any seen so far. I offer the following framework so far uncovered to date; We have concluded that extensive evidence indicates an early Abbasid influenced straight sword, rigid, with turned down quillons, 8 sided hilt and Islamic pommel with occasionally blade dots; Sword variously Shown on this thread. Date of design and inception 751 AD , parallel with the appearance in Oman of The First Immam, Ibn Julanda. The early Kattara used as the "Heraldic" Ibathi Sword used against the Abbasids garrisoned in Oman whose Caliphs in Iraq vehemently disagreed with the formation of the splinter group Ibathi sect. Thus; The Omani Sword known as Kattara used in unison with the Terrs Shield and displayed in the Funoon as both an ancient ritual parade sword dance and mimic martial dance notably in The Razha; The Sword Dance... in the mid 8thC. A.D. The sword went on for a thousand years or more (Gaining Iconic status in the last 200 years) though perhaps in the 17th C a replacement thinner lighter more flexible blade appeared possibly from European sources. It is likely that with the advent of gunpowder sparked the demise of bladed weapons though the loss of expertise in making original wing shaped cross sectioned blades may also have led to the cheaper replacements. In fact the story could be a reversal of that since all males over about 16 years of age are eligible to yield a Kattara and that more men now have a sword for ritual dancing than ever before. Some time later perhaps in the 18th ? 19th C a complete sword appeared i.e. blade hilt and pommel as one piece. This blade was very Flexible capable of a 90 degree bend from the spatulate tip. It was to revolutionise the Funoon. It has been suggested it is a European Trade Blade though no solid proof exists. The blades carry a variety of blademarks many of which are fake or copies. No ships manifests have yet been discovered of numbers of blades in the hold for delivery to Oman. It is suggested by association that since Africa was awash with German blades then Oman must also have been. Yet no evidence exists, no other place in the Red Sea, Africa, Yemen India or Iran sport these blades. They are entirely specific to Oman and no blade stamps are conclusive as to origin. Tantalising blades similar but not flexible and much thicker seem to come from Saudia and or Yemen as #1 on this thread which may or may not be related and carry distinctive blade marks suggested as being either a european copy (Peter Cull cross) or Islamic forms of Akhbar(great) short calligraphy form of the god is great stamp. This was a dancing sword and could be buzzed in the air. Whats more it was peculiar to Oman only and the reason why it turned up in Zanzibar was because Oman owned it.. The sword encompassed the Terrs and inherited the name Kattara. The point of the research is to try to define where did the new blades originate and when? By normal trade inside Oman, through and between souqs, recent blades (aprox within the last 100 years) appear. Two known sources are Ras Al Khaimah and Salalah. It is likely that other centres have knocked out suitably made blades including Nizwa and Muscat. How much has leaked into Oman from Yemen, Persia, India, Sri Lanka, Zanzibar, Africa, Europe or other centres is unknown but is probably substantial. It could be that in searching for a mass influx at some point in time in the last 200 years of a vast quantity of blades is in fact chasing shadows but we are not alone in history and perhaps the art of "tilting at windmills" is still alive. The search continues. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. I will show the pair of Salalah Sayf in my next letter ..In detail... It may come as a shock to some...