West African ? sword for I.D. and comment.

Jim McDougall · 14th October 2011, 04:11 PM

Actually the filled holes in blades are indeed believed to likely be talismanic and similar practice is described in "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" (Yucel) as to bring good luck to the swordsman. The practice actually extends into ancient times and in Frankish swords a gold filled hole or nail driven into a hole in the finished blade was a practice known. This may of course have certain religious proposition as of course blades were inscribed with such invocations.
Briggs in his work on Saharan takoubas notes copper filled holes near the blade tip, and mentions the number of European swords with such features.
It would not be surprising to see the custom or practice diffused well through African regions through trade and colonial activity.

Mauro · 14th October 2011, 07:02 PM

Hi Jim, thanks for your informations. You find holes usually filled with copper or other metal such as this from Sudan to the West African coast. You also find them southward in the Congo basin but I do not remember this practice used in east african blades. If I remember well Ethiopia, Eritrea and also the highland of Kenia and Tanzania have no holes in their blades.

Jim McDougall · 15th October 2011, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauro

Hi Jim, thanks for your informations. You find holes usually filled with copper or other metal such as this from Sudan to the West African coast. You also find them southward in the Congo basin but I do not remember this practice used in east african blades. If I remember well Ethiopia, Eritrea and also the highland of Kenia and Tanzania have no holes in their blades.

You're welcome Mauro, and well noted on the East African blades, a most interesting observation. It seems that this custom or practice, while dating to ancient times, was not universally practiced, but seems well known over vast cultural spheres.

All the best,
Jim

Iain · 17th October 2011, 09:59 AM

I also can't think of an example with holes in the blade.

As an interesting side note, if we all agree this basic sword form is most widely known from the Mandingo with various tribal variations, it is interesting to speculate how far back the form might date - given the history of the Mandingo as the driving force behind the Mali Empire.

Mauro · 17th October 2011, 11:47 AM

In my opinion there are major differences between Toma, Mandingo and Mende swords with some common peculiarities: Mandingo also use curved blades that I do not know among Toma or Mende (but they could exist and it is simply my poor knowledge). The Toma sword that I know are medium sized straight blade while Mende have longer ones such as in the examples illustrated in the photos. Again it is possible that there are shorter swords but I do not know them. There are major variation in the handle and guard that however, in all these tribes is not particularly pronounced. I do not know if Mende and Toma belong to the larger Mandingo group. I know that Mende and Mandingo belong to the Mande linguistic group but I don't know of the Toma. It would be interesting to get information about these kind of swords in the past but unfortunately I do not have any document.

Iain · 17th October 2011, 12:21 PM

I agree there are differences between the types - but I would consider them all from the same family. Hilt style is broadly similar - wood, with bulbous protrusions to form guard and pommel (of course the Mandingo of the Sahel are using a leather hilt with a brass pommel that is entirely different). Blade style also often shares common characteristics with half moon stamps and fullers taken or influenced by takouba blades.

Mandingo curved blades are either usually French military sabre blades or native copies.

Toma also belong to the Mande linguistic group. So they should be related to some extent.

Sadly I have never seen a good resource for Mali Empire era weaponry. It is not a widely studied area I think.

Mauro · 17th October 2011, 01:10 PM

This is a quite interesting topic because it deals with the characteristics that can be used to create a hierarchy of more or less related items, in this case swords. To put a clear cut between groups is usually an individual process with a certain, sometimes large, degree of subjectivity. In this case one could also find similarities between some short Takouba and these swords. Kaskaras for example have also a scabbard that has more similarities with the Mandingo sword than these other ones where the scabbard has not an enlargement. However, in general I agree with you although I would easily say that Mende and Toma are closer than Mandingo.

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14th October 2011, 04:11 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Actually the filled holes in blades are indeed believed to likely be talismanic and similar practice is described in "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" (Yucel) as to bring good luck to the swordsman. The practice actually extends into ancient times and in Frankish swords a gold filled hole or nail driven into a hole in the finished blade was a practice known. This may of course have certain religious proposition as of course blades were inscribed with such invocations. Briggs in his work on Saharan takoubas notes copper filled holes near the blade tip, and mentions the number of European swords with such features. It would not be surprising to see the custom or practice diffused well through African regions through trade and colonial activity.

14th October 2011, 07:02 PM	#2
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Hi Jim, thanks for your informations. You find holes usually filled with copper or other metal such as this from Sudan to the West African coast. You also find them southward in the Congo basin but I do not remember this practice used in east african blades. If I remember well Ethiopia, Eritrea and also the highland of Kenia and Tanzania have no holes in their blades.

17th October 2011, 09:59 AM	#4
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	I also can't think of an example with holes in the blade. As an interesting side note, if we all agree this basic sword form is most widely known from the Mandingo with various tribal variations, it is interesting to speculate how far back the form might date - given the history of the Mandingo as the driving force behind the Mali Empire.

17th October 2011, 11:47 AM	#5
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	In my opinion there are major differences between Toma, Mandingo and Mende swords with some common peculiarities: Mandingo also use curved blades that I do not know among Toma or Mende (but they could exist and it is simply my poor knowledge). The Toma sword that I know are medium sized straight blade while Mende have longer ones such as in the examples illustrated in the photos. Again it is possible that there are shorter swords but I do not know them. There are major variation in the handle and guard that however, in all these tribes is not particularly pronounced. I do not know if Mende and Toma belong to the larger Mandingo group. I know that Mende and Mandingo belong to the Mande linguistic group but I don't know of the Toma. It would be interesting to get information about these kind of swords in the past but unfortunately I do not have any document.

17th October 2011, 12:21 PM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	I agree there are differences between the types - but I would consider them all from the same family. Hilt style is broadly similar - wood, with bulbous protrusions to form guard and pommel (of course the Mandingo of the Sahel are using a leather hilt with a brass pommel that is entirely different). Blade style also often shares common characteristics with half moon stamps and fullers taken or influenced by takouba blades. Mandingo curved blades are either usually French military sabre blades or native copies. Toma also belong to the Mande linguistic group. So they should be related to some extent. Sadly I have never seen a good resource for Mali Empire era weaponry. It is not a widely studied area I think.

17th October 2011, 01:10 PM	#7
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	This is a quite interesting topic because it deals with the characteristics that can be used to create a hierarchy of more or less related items, in this case swords. To put a clear cut between groups is usually an individual process with a certain, sometimes large, degree of subjectivity. In this case one could also find similarities between some short Takouba and these swords. Kaskaras for example have also a scabbard that has more similarities with the Mandingo sword than these other ones where the scabbard has not an enlargement. However, in general I agree with you although I would easily say that Mende and Toma are closer than Mandingo.