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28th August 2011, 09:31 PM
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#1 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
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Quote:
It appears to be a standard (size and shape) 'Damascus' type dagger hilt mounted to a sword blade. Rather than some specific sword variation of that type. There seem to be no adaptations or even concessions to the longer blade, even though Syrian swords are often Shamshir type (with guards) and the blade is a sabre which presumably had a guard of familiar type. Also of course the blade is a 'foreign' sabre and not a Syrian blade (like those in the daggers). The scabbard mounts are a mixture of the usual kind of 'shamshir' scabbard hangers and crude throat/chape that follow the general construction of those scabbards seen on the daggers. So, I'd guess that this is a genuine period hybrid rather than a recognised tpye. An atypical re-using of a sabre blade by local craftsmen. I'd guess at a date of between the wars. Best Gene |
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21st May 2015, 10:23 PM
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
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Hi Guys
I know that is an old post. But I have one question, you date these daggers, for the oldest ones, from the 1920ties. If you look the Charles Buttin catalogue, you will see the same kind of dagger dated from the 19th c. My question is do you think that sometimes you underestimate the antiquity of some objects? It's a classic case with the experimented collectors or the good dealers, they don't want to surestimate the age of an object... Just the opposite of the young collectors and bad dealers who want to make some money. |
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22nd May 2015, 04:19 AM
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#3 | |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,832
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I think that what you suggest is probably quite true. It must be remembered that this type of weapon was not generally made in a factory, so that unlike (for example) English Firearms from known makers, where production information is usually readily available, ACTUAL manufacture dates of these, and other "ethnic" daggers and weapons can not generally be accurately verified. We have publications from early travellers in the region, and more modern publications, but I am sure that all of these probably contain some errors. In the end it comes down to the knowledge (or lack of it) of the individual to determine the age of an item. The bottom line is LET THE BUYER BEWARE. I have before quoted this statement made to me years ago by a now long gone collector. He said to me that "If it does not look right, then it probably isn't". This has stood me in good stead over the years. Stu |
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29th May 2016, 08:54 PM
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
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Just to come back at this old post and what I said about these daggers. Some of them are clearly from the 19th c. Look at the silver or lead star patterns, they are exactly the same on the the Syrian or badawi swords...
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17th December 2018, 09:19 AM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
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Instead of opening a new thread I prefer to feed this one
Here a pic from Tarsus Museum in Turkey: note the Majdali with a nice Turkish? Kurdish? scabbard... Late 19th or very early 20th c... |
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19th December 2018, 06:42 PM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
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Another Damascus type???
At first, I thought it would be a typical tourist dagger...
But now I think it might be an original? From the pics above I would say that it fits to the Damaskus style, see the three stars on the blade. Anybody out there who can help in translating/explaning the engraving? Any comments regarding its origin, inscription and age would be highly welcome  BR, Montagnard |
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20th December 2018, 10:44 AM
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#7 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
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Quote:
First this tourist stories are nonsense, many forum members are talking about that but most of the weapons here are for tourists, the question is more are they old and are they produced manually / traditionally? Did they have been used by locals too? You can put in this "bag" most of the Indian and Persian weapons from the end of the 19th and early 20th c. Your dagger is a Syrian Magdali or Majdali, probably 1930-40, during the French mandate. Did the Syrians or Druze in fact (for this area) used this dagger? the answser is yes, did they sell souvenirs to the French and the first tourists? the answser is yes. So be carreful on this forum, you will see members with very strong ideas and opinions, but they are just opinions, this statment includes myself. Your dagger is engraved instead of the classic acid etching and the hilt is decorated only on one face that is a very good sign. I don't know for the inscription sometimes it's just written "souvenir de Syrie", it's not a joke... Kubur
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20th December 2018, 10:57 AM
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#8 | |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 1,340
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Quote:
Those daggers are made with plastic hilts and sometimes synthetic MoP with brass and etched sheet steel blades. They look not so different compared to the older ones except in quality and in fine details. Older blades are high quality with some having complicated fullering. Yours is no different from pieces mass produced in the 2000's, they could be commonly found in antique shops around the Arab world. Majdalis from the early 20th century are generally of high quality for what they are. |
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