Kris from Yogyakarta

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2011, 11:02 PM

Classic banyu tetes.

GIO · 30th July 2011, 05:14 PM

Alan and Simatua, though your answers do not match, I am grateful for your help.
As to myself, I cannot have an opinion since I have no examples of pamor banyu tetes.
Many thanks again.

asomotif · 1st August 2011, 09:54 PM

Lovely keris. Lovely pamor.

I also like the pendok with the linear design. I have a similar one on one of my keris. Is there a name for this specific pendok motif ?

Best regards,
Willem

Gustav · 1st August 2011, 10:18 PM

This motiv is called menyan kobar (burning incense), according to Solyom. It probably has protective meaning.

On batik there is a similar motiv, called nganam gedeg.

This motiv of imitated plaitwork is very old, you can see it also on old ceramics from archipelago.

asomotif · 1st August 2011, 10:28 PM

Thank you Gustav !

GIO · 2nd August 2011, 01:34 AM

Willem and Gustav, many thanks for the additional info.
Re the monogram on the reverse of the pendok, it means "Allah", but probably you already knew that.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2011, 02:24 AM

"Allah" ?

Really?

It looks like the lambang of the Karaton Ngayogyakrta Hadiningrat to me.

Jean · 2nd August 2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Lovely keris. Lovely pamor.

I also like the pendok with the linear design. I have a similar one on one of my keris. Is there a name for this specific pendok motif ?

Best regards,
Willem

Hello Willem,
Yogya pendok fitted on a Solonese warangka or just a manufacturer stamp?
Best regards
Jean

asomotif · 2nd August 2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Willem,
Yogya pendok fitted on a Solonese warangka or just a manufacturer stamp?
Best regards
Jean

Good question.
The pendok fits like a glove and seems original to the scabbard.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd August 2011, 12:30 AM

GIO, I cannot read hanacaraka (Javanese script), and the letters within the coat of arms of the Karaton Ngayogyakarta are somewhat stylised, but even so, I think that we will find that these leters are "Hb", standing for "Hamengkubuwana", the common abbreviation for the title of the Sultan of Jogja:-

Sampeyan Dalem Ingkang Sinuwun Kanjeng Hamengku Buwono Senapati ing Ngalaga , Abdurrahman Sayidin Panatagama Kalifatullah.

One thing is absolutely certain:- these letters are not any form of Arabic script, they are Javanese script, and they do not read as "Allah".

PenangsangII · 3rd August 2011, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

GIO, I cannot read hanacaraka (Javanese script), and the letters within the coat of arms of the Karaton Ngayogyakarta are somewhat stylised, but even so, I think that we will find that these leters are "Hb", standing for "Hamengkubuwana", the common abbreviation for the title of the Sultan of Jogja:-

Sampeyan Dalem Ingkang Sinuwun Kanjeng Hamengku Buwono Senapati ing Ngalaga , Abdurrahman Sayidin Panatagama Kalifatullah.

One thing is absolutely certain:- these letters are not any form of Arabic script, they are Javanese script, and they do not read as "Allah".

Yes, those are Javanese aksara.

PenangsangII · 2nd August 2011, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Alan and Simatua, though your answers do not match, I am grateful for your help.
As to myself, I cannot have an opinion since I have no examples of pamor banyu tetes.
Many thanks again.

Me think it is called "wahyu temurun"

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2011, 08:51 AM

Penangsang, I have never heard of pamor wahyu temuran, but that does not mean that it does not exist and that somewhere this pamor is known by that name, so tell us please :- where is this pamor known as wahyu temurun?

In Solo, and East Jawa --- Surabaya, Malang --- I have never heard anybody call it other than banyu tetes, and it is a very common pamor in current era keris, as this one is.

Gustav · 2nd August 2011, 10:35 AM

Dear All,

after a private correspondence and a look in Solyom's book I must say, my reading was wery sloppy. Here some more details about plaitwork imitation on pendoks.

Nganam Gedeg (Gedeg - split flattened interplaited bamboo) and Tirto (water) Tejo (sparkling) are both known as batik motivs (the names of batik patterns are also used as the names of patterns in other Javanese arts); the only difference between these is the orientation of the bambu weave, and alternation of inscribed and blank bars. Looking at Tirto Tejo you see zig-zag waves.

Regarding Menyan (incense) Kobar (burning), there should be wavy lines incised on some certain bars, which together form an ascending wavy line over the pendok. The bars should be sufficiently wide to permit execution of this motiv.

PenangsangII · 3rd August 2011, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Me think it is called "wahyu temurun"

Hi Alan,

I have no idea the exact origin of the term "wahyu temurun" but its quite common name used in Jogja and by collectors of Javanese keris here in Malaysia. After doing some checking with a few of my collector friends, the pamor is also known as "tirto tumetes" or "banyu tumetes" as you had mentioned earlier. Sorry for the confusion.

1st August 2011, 09:54 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	Lovely keris. Lovely pamor. I also like the pendok with the linear design. I have a similar one on one of my keris. Is there a name for this specific pendok motif ? Best regards, Willem Attached Images

1st August 2011, 10:18 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	This motiv is called menyan kobar (burning incense), according to Solyom. It probably has protective meaning. On batik there is a similar motiv, called nganam gedeg. This motiv of imitated plaitwork is very old, you can see it also on old ceramics from archipelago. Last edited by Gustav; 1st August 2011 at 10:41 PM.

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29th July 2011, 11:02 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Classic banyu tetes.

30th July 2011, 05:14 PM	#2
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	Alan and Simatua, though your answers do not match, I am grateful for your help. As to myself, I cannot have an opinion since I have no examples of pamor banyu tetes. Many thanks again.

1st August 2011, 10:28 PM	#5
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	Thank you Gustav !

2nd August 2011, 01:34 AM	#6
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	Willem and Gustav, many thanks for the additional info. Re the monogram on the reverse of the pendok, it means "Allah", but probably you already knew that.

2nd August 2011, 02:24 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	"Allah" ? Really? It looks like the lambang of the Karaton Ngayogyakrta Hadiningrat to me.

3rd August 2011, 12:30 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	GIO, I cannot read hanacaraka (Javanese script), and the letters within the coat of arms of the Karaton Ngayogyakarta are somewhat stylised, but even so, I think that we will find that these leters are "Hb", standing for "Hamengkubuwana", the common abbreviation for the title of the Sultan of Jogja:- Sampeyan Dalem Ingkang Sinuwun Kanjeng Hamengku Buwono Senapati ing Ngalaga , Abdurrahman Sayidin Panatagama Kalifatullah. One thing is absolutely certain:- these letters are not any form of Arabic script, they are Javanese script, and they do not read as "Allah".

2nd August 2011, 08:51 AM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Penangsang, I have never heard of pamor wahyu temuran, but that does not mean that it does not exist and that somewhere this pamor is known by that name, so tell us please :- where is this pamor known as wahyu temurun? In Solo, and East Jawa --- Surabaya, Malang --- I have never heard anybody call it other than banyu tetes, and it is a very common pamor in current era keris, as this one is.

2nd August 2011, 10:35 AM	#14
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Dear All, after a private correspondence and a look in Solyom's book I must say, my reading was wery sloppy. Here some more details about plaitwork imitation on pendoks. Nganam Gedeg (Gedeg - split flattened interplaited bamboo) and Tirto (water) Tejo (sparkling) are both known as batik motivs (the names of batik patterns are also used as the names of patterns in other Javanese arts); the only difference between these is the orientation of the bambu weave, and alternation of inscribed and blank bars. Looking at Tirto Tejo you see zig-zag waves. Regarding Menyan (incense) Kobar (burning), there should be wavy lines incised on some certain bars, which together form an ascending wavy line over the pendok. The bars should be sufficiently wide to permit execution of this motiv.