Seeking pamor information ??

Marcokeris · 25th June 2011, 05:12 PM

Nice keris

IMO: a kind of lar gansir. Also walang sinuduk possibile

Jean · 25th June 2011, 10:15 PM

Hello Sirek,
This blade has a very strong Madurese flavor and Walang Sinuduk is a Javanese pamor so is it applicable? The name game would say Alan?
Best regards
Jean

A. G. Maisey · 26th June 2011, 12:27 AM

Alan would say:- dealer's montage, recent blade.

But a pleasant looking piece composed of nice individual components.

Jean · 26th June 2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Alan would say:- dealer's montage, recent blade.

But a pleasant looking piece composed of nice individual components.

Thank you Alan, this was my impression too about the blade because of the roughly applied pamor especially but I agree that it is a nice piece overall.
Best regards
Jean

sirek · 26th June 2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Alan would say:- dealer's montage, recent blade.

But a pleasant looking piece composed of nice individual components.

Thank you all for your comment,

Mr. Maisey it is possible to explain why this blade is not old?
I know I ask you to do this through a photo, but I would appreciate your explanation.

A. G. Maisey · 27th June 2011, 12:48 AM

Based upon what I can see on the computer monitor in front of me, this blade looks recent.

My opinion is based purely upon my experience and what I can see.

I am unable to provide a course in how to identify recent Madura blades, or blades from other origins, by way of the internet.

It becomes a matter of :- "if it looks like a cow, its a cow"

However, my opinion could change if I held it in my hand.

sirek · 27th June 2011, 01:00 PM

Thanks, Mr. Maisey for your reply.

I understand what you meant to say,

It's not easy to convert experience/ knowledge into writing.
But I still hope that once someone find a way to document your knowledge,
so that people such as myself who has not grown up in a keris-culture
could acquire more knowledge of the complex world of the kris.

A. G. Maisey · 27th June 2011, 02:41 PM

Sirek, the really big problem for me is trying to work from photos on a computer monitor.

In virtually all cases, those photos are very much less than good, and even with really excellent photos, what I see, and what everybody who looks at their own computer monitor sees, is altered by the many processes that the image that is put into the camera goes through before it arrives on the screen.

In other words, what I see, and what each of us sees, is at best only an approximation of the actual keris.

However, to distinguish between recent and old, good and poor, genuine and false is something that even a person with much knowledge and experience often has a degree of difficulty with when the object is right there in his hand.

However, there are some indicators, or "tells" that tend to push an experienced person's opinion in one direction or another. Sometimes these tells are very plain, sometimes they are not, so often when the opinion is formed it must be regarded as only an opinion, not something that is known with certainty.

When I give an opinion on a blade like yours please remember it is an opinion only. It is not an infallible pronouncement. If I held the blade, my opinion could change.

However, in the matter of the combination of the various components of this keris, the matter is entirely different. I do not need to see the same amount of detail, nor to examine it in the same way as I do with a blade. A slight difference in the angle of the photograph is not so important, a slight variation in colour or texture doesn't really matter. I can see just about all I need to see in even a poor photo --- and your photos are by no means poor.

How to pass this sort of knowledge on?

I do not know how.

It would be possible to draw up some sort of primer, but it would be about as useful to the average collector as a text book on probability theory would be to a student who had not yet completed primary school.

I simply cannot see any substitute for long experience. I'm sorry.

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25th June 2011, 05:12 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Nice keris IMO: a kind of lar gansir. Also walang sinuduk possibile

25th June 2011, 10:15 PM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Sirek, This blade has a very strong Madurese flavor and Walang Sinuduk is a Javanese pamor so is it applicable? The name game would say Alan? Best regards Jean

26th June 2011, 12:27 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,156	Alan would say:- dealer's montage, recent blade. But a pleasant looking piece composed of nice individual components.

27th June 2011, 12:48 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,156	Based upon what I can see on the computer monitor in front of me, this blade looks recent. My opinion is based purely upon my experience and what I can see. I am unable to provide a course in how to identify recent Madura blades, or blades from other origins, by way of the internet. It becomes a matter of :- "if it looks like a cow, its a cow" However, my opinion could change if I held it in my hand.

27th June 2011, 01:00 PM	#7
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 171	Thanks, Mr. Maisey for your reply. I understand what you meant to say, It's not easy to convert experience/ knowledge into writing. But I still hope that once someone find a way to document your knowledge, so that people such as myself who has not grown up in a keris-culture could acquire more knowledge of the complex world of the kris.

27th June 2011, 02:41 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,156	Sirek, the really big problem for me is trying to work from photos on a computer monitor. In virtually all cases, those photos are very much less than good, and even with really excellent photos, what I see, and what everybody who looks at their own computer monitor sees, is altered by the many processes that the image that is put into the camera goes through before it arrives on the screen. In other words, what I see, and what each of us sees, is at best only an approximation of the actual keris. However, to distinguish between recent and old, good and poor, genuine and false is something that even a person with much knowledge and experience often has a degree of difficulty with when the object is right there in his hand. However, there are some indicators, or "tells" that tend to push an experienced person's opinion in one direction or another. Sometimes these tells are very plain, sometimes they are not, so often when the opinion is formed it must be regarded as only an opinion, not something that is known with certainty. When I give an opinion on a blade like yours please remember it is an opinion only. It is not an infallible pronouncement. If I held the blade, my opinion could change. However, in the matter of the combination of the various components of this keris, the matter is entirely different. I do not need to see the same amount of detail, nor to examine it in the same way as I do with a blade. A slight difference in the angle of the photograph is not so important, a slight variation in colour or texture doesn't really matter. I can see just about all I need to see in even a poor photo --- and your photos are by no means poor. How to pass this sort of knowledge on? I do not know how. It would be possible to draw up some sort of primer, but it would be about as useful to the average collector as a text book on probability theory would be to a student who had not yet completed primary school. I simply cannot see any substitute for long experience. I'm sorry.