SUASA Copper/Gold or Gold/Copper alloy

VVV · 25th May 2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Very interesting. Does this recipe for suasa vary depending on region, or is this the standard for what we usually see?

My recipe was for Aceh, the same region as Willem's rencong comes from.

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 25th May 2011, 01:57 PM

Gav, gilding was very common in Jawa and Bali, and is still available in Jawa. I'm not talking gold plate, I'm talking fire gilding.I don't know about Sumatera.

Gavin Nugent · 25th May 2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Gav, gilding was very common in Jawa and Bali, and is still available in Jawa. I'm not talking gold plate, I'm talking fire gilding.I don't know about Sumatera.

Indeed Alan, many things are gilded or painted in gold and other bright colours within Bali, Java I can not speak of.
Mainland SEA I see it is quite common in history although mostly around religion but very seldom have I seen other regions of SEA spoken of regarding gilding of any sort.
Any digression in from suasa to gilding from those more learned in the subjects.

Gav

A. G. Maisey · 25th May 2011, 02:48 PM

Gav, when gold is painted onto wood or other surfaces in Jawa and Bali, we refer to it as "prada" (pron. "prodo"). We use the same term for gold leaf applied over wood, whether it is the modern plastic gold, or traditional gold leaf.

I am not referring to this in my earlier post.

I am referring to fire gilding

http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nena...ilding-9-3.htm

Gavin Nugent · 25th May 2011, 03:01 PM

Thanks Alan,

I have never seen the art done first hand and I am not sure I would want to unless it was done behind glass.
I did read a little about this method when researching the gold retained on the late 16th century Khanda/Patissa in my collections. it seems is was very common in old Hindu India, likely I would guess how it came down in the Java and Bali.

I'd love to see more study pieces from the regions.

Gav

Battara · 25th May 2011, 05:06 PM

The problem with traditional gilding is that mercury is used.

It vaporizes when heat is applied and gold bonds into the base metal. It is thick compared to gold plating.

Alan is right in that the recipe for suassa varies between regions and even between smiths, depending upon the hue needed.

A. G. Maisey · 26th May 2011, 01:04 AM

Yes, the mercury is a problem.

However, the one remaining man in Solo who still does this work is by all reports at least 80+ years old --- and he looks more than that.

It reminds me a bit of Empu Suparman and his warangan work. He used to grind up the warangan on the same mortar and pestle that his wife used to prepare spices for use in cooking.

But it wasn't the arsenic that killed him it was tobacco.

25th May 2011, 03:01 PM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks Alan, I have never seen the art done first hand and I am not sure I would want to unless it was done behind glass. I did read a little about this method when researching the gold retained on the late 16th century Khanda/Patissa in my collections. it seems is was very common in old Hindu India, likely I would guess how it came down in the Java and Bali. I'd love to see more study pieces from the regions. Gav Last edited by freebooter; 25th May 2011 at 03:22 PM.

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25th May 2011, 01:57 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Gav, gilding was very common in Jawa and Bali, and is still available in Jawa. I'm not talking gold plate, I'm talking fire gilding.I don't know about Sumatera.

25th May 2011, 02:48 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Gav, when gold is painted onto wood or other surfaces in Jawa and Bali, we refer to it as "prada" (pron. "prodo"). We use the same term for gold leaf applied over wood, whether it is the modern plastic gold, or traditional gold leaf. I am not referring to this in my earlier post. I am referring to fire gilding http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nena...ilding-9-3.htm

25th May 2011, 05:06 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	The problem with traditional gilding is that mercury is used. It vaporizes when heat is applied and gold bonds into the base metal. It is thick compared to gold plating. Alan is right in that the recipe for suassa varies between regions and even between smiths, depending upon the hue needed.

26th May 2011, 01:04 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yes, the mercury is a problem. However, the one remaining man in Solo who still does this work is by all reports at least 80+ years old --- and he looks more than that. It reminds me a bit of Empu Suparman and his warangan work. He used to grind up the warangan on the same mortar and pestle that his wife used to prepare spices for use in cooking. But it wasn't the arsenic that killed him it was tobacco.