Two Very Fine Landsknecht Swords, Southern Germany, ca. 1490 and 1525

cornelistromp · 4th April 2011, 01:41 PM

Hi Gentlemen,

very nice discussion, I hope I don't put some oil on the fire with my opinion.
the sword is a composed sword but probably this has been done in the 16th century.
The blade is much older, probably late 14th early 15th century and marked with the Tau cross or St Antons cross. The Guard is very atypical , but like Oakeshott claims; that you never have seen it means nothing unless you have seen them all, anyway it looks 16th century to me, the patin corresponds with the pommel and it has the same mythical creature heads as some of the landsknecht katzbalgers have at their guards.
The bent tang however this could have been done recently or maybe not so recent who can tell ? Grip can be a replacement or authentic and 1cm shortened.

Best,

Jim McDougall · 5th April 2011, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Hi Gentlemen,

very nice discussion, I hope I don't put some oil on the fire with my opinion.
the sword is a composed sword but probably this has been done in the 16th century.
The blade is much older, probably late 14th early 15th century and marked with the Tau cross or St Antons cross. The Guard is very atypical , but like Oakeshott claims; that you never have seen it means nothing unless you have seen them all, anyway it looks 16th century to me, the patin corresponds with the pommel and it has the same mythical creature heads as some of the landsknecht katzbalgers have at their guards.
The bent tang however this could have been done recently or maybe not so recent who can tell ? Grip can be a replacement or authentic and 1cm shortened.

Best,

It really has been a great discussion, and all the better having you join us!!!

The Oakeshott axiom is definitely well placed, as there always seem to be previously unknown variations of established forms, which usually makes it extremely hard to assess from photos. I admit I had originally thought these were as described in the catalog as 19th century refurbished but the views by you, Michael and his friend are compelling.

I am unclear about your note on the tau cross, which I thought looked like a T. Which of the markings do you mean?

All the best,
Jim

cornelistromp · 5th April 2011, 07:59 AM

Hi Jim,

this crux commissa was used by the knights of saint Antoine, sant Antonio, Sankt Anton, sant Antoni.
pictures of a similar cross on a 15thc sword and pictures of "a Ordre Militaire et Hospitalier de Saint-Antoine",knights of christ, painting of van Eyk.
look at the shield of the knight in the front with the cross of blood, it has the woording
D(OMINU)S FORTIS ADONAY SABAOT and from left to right EM(MANU)EL LH.S. XR. AGLA. and the in the middle of the shield...... the T-cross.

best,

Matchlock · 5th April 2011, 05:43 PM

Hi Jasper,

Thank you for this remarkable post!

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 14th April 2011, 06:54 PM

From:

E. Heer: Der neue Stockel, 3 vols. with marks of international gun and crossbow smiths, Schwäbisch Hall, 1978.

Best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 14th April 2011, 07:37 PM

Hi Michael,

I belief, I have a 2 handsword with this A mark, I will post pictures later

best,

Matchlock · 15th April 2011, 05:16 PM

Hi Jasper,

I'm dying to see it!

Best,
Michael

5th April 2011, 07:59 AM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Jim, this crux commissa was used by the knights of saint Antoine, sant Antonio, Sankt Anton, sant Antoni. pictures of a similar cross on a 15thc sword and pictures of "a Ordre Militaire et Hospitalier de Saint-Antoine",knights of christ, painting of van Eyk. look at the shield of the knight in the front with the cross of blood, it has the woording D(OMINU)S FORTIS ADONAY SABAOT and from left to right EM(MANU)EL LH.S. XR. AGLA. and the in the middle of the shield...... the T-cross. best, Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 5th April 2011 at 06:04 PM.

14th April 2011, 06:54 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The Gothic Majuscule A as the 15th/16th C. Ausgburg City Mark From: E. Heer: Der neue Stockel, 3 vols. with marks of international gun and crossbow smiths, Schwäbisch Hall, 1978. Best, Michael Attached Images

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4th April 2011, 01:41 PM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Gentlemen, very nice discussion, I hope I don't put some oil on the fire with my opinion. the sword is a composed sword but probably this has been done in the 16th century. The blade is much older, probably late 14th early 15th century and marked with the Tau cross or St Antons cross. The Guard is very atypical , but like Oakeshott claims; that you never have seen it means nothing unless you have seen them all, anyway it looks 16th century to me, the patin corresponds with the pommel and it has the same mythical creature heads as some of the landsknecht katzbalgers have at their guards. The bent tang however this could have been done recently or maybe not so recent who can tell ? Grip can be a replacement or authentic and 1cm shortened. Best,

5th April 2011, 05:43 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jasper, Thank you for this remarkable post! Best, Michael

14th April 2011, 07:37 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Michael, I belief, I have a 2 handsword with this A mark, I will post pictures later best,

15th April 2011, 05:16 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jasper, I'm dying to see it! Best, Michael