Bali Ivory Keris (eBay)

Battara · 8th February 2011, 01:09 AM

What about the carving - modern? And the selut? My other question is the gold on the top?

David · 8th February 2011, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

What about the carving - modern? And the selut? My other question is the gold on the top?

I don't see a selut here. I see what looks like an ivory uwer. I couldn't speak to the age of the hilt. It has patina and color but that's easy to fake. The carving isn't brilliant, but it's OK. It has been damaged and repaired, but that is no proof of age. But frankly i don't have a problem if it is more recent. That is the nature of keris ensembles. The parts get replaced over the years.
The blade look to be old and good to my eyes with the remains of an original Bali stain. What about the gold José? The foil looks to be real gold. I also couldn't speak to the era when it was added, but to my eyes it is tasteful.

A. G. Maisey · 8th February 2011, 02:04 AM

Everything I can see here is in perfect accord with the advertised period.

I'm not saying by this that I believe everything that has been written, but it is old, and nothing is out of place, nor striking a discordant note.

Battara · 8th February 2011, 06:44 AM

Very helpful thank you folks.

Jean · 8th February 2011, 09:44 AM

Nice piece indeed and it would have fetched about 50% more in Europe. However and from the pictures I would not discard the possibility that the dark stains on the cross-piece and the gandar are actually dyed and not original.

Best regards

David · 8th February 2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Nice piece indeed and it would have fetched about 50% more in Europe. However and from the pictures I would not discard the possibility that the dark stains on the cross-piece and the gandar are actually dyed and not original.

Best regards

I don't think the photos are really good enough for me to make a determination like that, however, from my own logic i would put forth, why go to the trouble to adding an inlaid veneer of wood down the gandar if you are going to fake this with staining? As i stated before, these timoho veneers are fairly common because it is a rare wood and using less in a veneer down the front is both attractive and economical.

A. G. Maisey · 8th February 2011, 11:52 AM

They could well be Jean, and this possibility is reflected in my upper and lower levels of estimated value, however, I am just not good enough to know whether this is natural timoho or a stained pattern from net photos.

David's logic is spot on.

Jean · 8th February 2011, 01:22 PM

Attached is a picture (not very good but sufficient for the needs) of an East Java kris with the hilt made from genuine timoho pelet and the warangka from dyed timoho (I tested it), can you see the difference and tell us which it is? I apparently see the same feature on the Bali kris cross-piece especially, within the limitation of the picture of course.

David · 8th February 2011, 03:24 PM

Yes Jean, i can clearly see why you would say this about this East Jawa example that you are showing us here. I am afraid that i still cannot say the same based upon the photos provided of the Balinese example and no presentation of other photos of completely different examples will do much to change my mind.
It also still seems odd that someone would go to the trouble of adding a veneer to the front of the gandar to present a fake pelet pattern when they could more easily apply the stain directly on the un-veneered gandar surface.

8th February 2011, 01:22 PM	#8
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Attached is a picture (not very good but sufficient for the needs) of an East Java kris with the hilt made from genuine timoho pelet and the warangka from dyed timoho (I tested it), can you see the difference and tell us which it is? I apparently see the same feature on the Bali kris cross-piece especially, within the limitation of the picture of course. Attached Images

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8th February 2011, 01:09 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	What about the carving - modern? And the selut? My other question is the gold on the top?

8th February 2011, 02:04 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Everything I can see here is in perfect accord with the advertised period. I'm not saying by this that I believe everything that has been written, but it is old, and nothing is out of place, nor striking a discordant note.

8th February 2011, 06:44 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Very helpful thank you folks.

8th February 2011, 09:44 AM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Nice piece indeed and it would have fetched about 50% more in Europe. However and from the pictures I would not discard the possibility that the dark stains on the cross-piece and the gandar are actually dyed and not original. Best regards

8th February 2011, 11:52 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	They could well be Jean, and this possibility is reflected in my upper and lower levels of estimated value, however, I am just not good enough to know whether this is natural timoho or a stained pattern from net photos. David's logic is spot on.

8th February 2011, 03:24 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Yes Jean, i can clearly see why you would say this about this East Jawa example that you are showing us here. I am afraid that i still cannot say the same based upon the photos provided of the Balinese example and no presentation of other photos of completely different examples will do much to change my mind. It also still seems odd that someone would go to the trouble of adding a veneer to the front of the gandar to present a fake pelet pattern when they could more easily apply the stain directly on the un-veneered gandar surface.