Javanese machete??

[Henk]

Thanks Kiai,

Through this wonderful forum we learn every day from each other!!!

Regards, Henk

[Ian]

Henk:

This is an example of the golok form of bendo, similar to the one shown in van Zonneveld.

The blade is very heavy and thick, with spine thickness 3/8 inch at the hilt and tapering to 3/16 inch about a 1/4-inch before the tip. The blade length is 9 1/4 inches and maximum width is 2 1/4 inches. The hilt is nicely carved.

The scabbard has been repaired and resembles the style shown in van Zonneveld.

This one is probably from Java.

Ian.

[marto suwignyo]

Kiai yth

I wonder if you could help me with something.

You tell us that the agricultural tool with a recurved tip, and known as a bendho around Jogja is never called this east of Solo .

Now, when I live in Java, my house is in Palur, which is east of Solo, and we call the tool shown by Henk a bendho, and we also call another tool that is essentially the same as a European billhook or pruning hook, a bendho.The tool that we call a bendho is similar to Henk`s tool, but without the swelling , the blade being only recurved, this one sometimes gets called a parang, which of course it is, as parang is generic, and bendho is specific.

My wife comes from Pare, near Kediri, and that`s a long way east of Solo. I showed her the picture of Henk`s bendho and asked what she would call it. She told me that she would call it bendho. I then got my own bendho from the garden shed ( this one came from Boyolali, and looks like a European billhook or pruning hook) and asked her what that was called in Pare. Again she told me it was a bendho. I am inclined to believe that her identifications are accurate, as her father owned a business which amongst other things, produced tools commercially, and my wife herself once owned a dairy farm.

Neither I nor my wife have ever heard this tool shown by Henk, referred to as an "arit gedhe", and our understanding of an arit gedhe is of something quite different to what Henk has shown. Again, neither of us know of a tool called a kudhi, but I did show the picture of Henk`s tool to a friend who comes from Jember, and who has lived in both Bogor and Pamekesan, and he immediately identified it as a kudhi. The tool with a curved blade and a little axe-like projection near the handle I have only seen a couple of times, and my notes tell me that it is called a "luke"(pron:lukeh).

I understand very well that the names of things can change from village to village, so in order to help improve my own understanding of Javanese terminology I would greatly appreciate it if you could tell me :-

1) the approximate location of the place where Henk`s tool is known as an "arit gedhe".

2) what a tool that looks like Henk`s tool, but without the swelling in the blade---that is, something like a European billhook or pruning hook---would be called in this place.

3) the approximate location where the tool with the axe-like projection near the handle is known as a "kudhi".

Please understand:- this is in no way a challenge to you; I understand that you are Javanese, and I believe that you would know exactly what things are called in your own village. My enquiry is simply to assist my own understanding of the variations in usage of the Javanese language.

Thank you for your assistance.

[marto suwignyo]

Ian, in my area we would never call this a bendho, we would call it a golok. For us, a tool must have a recurved blade to be a bedho.

Incidentally, I keep referring to these things as "tools", which of course they are, but in earlier times there were weapons that took the same or similar forms. You can see examples of these in the Musium Radyopustoko in Solo.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by marto suwignyo

Ian, in my area we would never call this a bendho, we would call it a golok. For us, a tool must have a recurved blade to be a bedho.

Marto:

Thanks for clarifying the name for this tool. I, too, called this particular example a golok when I acquired it. Then I found a nearly identical chopper in v. Zonneveld (p. 34) which he identified as a bendo from West Java. So, even Mr. v. Z. can make a mistake, or perhaps there is a regional variation in terms that differs from your own experience. In any case, it is very confusing for someone from a different culture trying to understand these terms from a distance.

I would find this variable terminology often when I traveled in SE Asia some years ago. The distinction between badik-sewar-rencong-tumbak and a few other knives just left my head hurting. Every time I thought I had these sorted out, a local person would throw in a completely different interpretation of which was which.

People such as yourself who can bring some direct experience of what names are applied to these various weapons/tools is very helpful. Thanks.

Ian.

PS: When you speak of a "recurved" blade, are you referring to the back of the blade or the cutting edge? When we discuss Indian and Islamic blades, such as the yataghan or sossun pattah, "recurved" is usually applied to the shape of the spine of the blade.

[marto suwignyo]

The variation in names of things from place to place in Java is very confusing sometimes, this was precisely what I was trying to clarify with my questions to Kiai Carita. I really only know Java,and not even all of that, but only where I and my wife have lived, but I imagine you could find a similar situation in other parts of South East Asia.
The chopper shown on P.34 of van Zonneveld`s book does have similar handle to the golok you have shown, but these choppers have entirely different blades to the type of blade on your example. In fact, when I saw that picture in the book it surprised me that it was called a bendho in West Java. van Zonneveld worked from old sources, and maybe at the time the books he worked from were published the names he gives for things in his book were correct, but there are quite a lot of things in the van Zonneveld book where the names now used are different from the names given in the book. Its not that Albert van Zonneveld made a mistake, its just that the times have changed, or the thing is known as something else in a different place, or even that the original author that van Zonneveld drew on was misinformed.
Kiai Carita took the correct approach when he said "in my village it is called such and such". In another village twenty kilometers down the road it might be called something else entirely, which to me means that if we want to give names to things we need to qualify the name by saying:- in this place, at this time, this article is known as a whatever.

[Billman]

Originally Posted by marto suwignyo

The variation in names of things from place to place in Java is very confusing sometimes, this was precisely what I was trying to clarify with my questions to Kiai Carita. Kiai Carita took the correct approach when he said "in my village it is called such and such". In another village twenty kilometers down the road it might be called something else entirely, which to me means that if we want to give names to things we need to qualify the name by saying:- in this place, at this time, this article is known as a whatever.

This does not only happen in Asia - even in countries such as France a few miles difference can mean a different spelling, a different pronunciation or even a completely different name...

The dictionary name for a billhook in French is a serpe (diminutive a serpette, or little serpe) - but also gouet, goyarde, poudo, pudet, podadora...

For more complete list, see my web site: http://www.billhooks.co.uk/France%201.htm

In the UK it can be a billhook; a bill, a handbill, a hedging bill, a chopper, a hacker, a brushing hook, a hook, a broom hook, a block hook, a spar hook, a pruning hook - see: http://www.billhooks.co.uk/Page%201.htm

and the shape can vary considerably from country to country....

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo Billman,

I would refer to your first six pictures as: Koedjang variants (while their shapes may appear to vary widely, they share the same philisophy in their construction).
BTW ..... I think it would be a mistake for anyone to think that koedjangs are/were only talismanic.
My avatar is a picture of my personal koedjang. It is 43 cm long and fully functional.

Best,

[Kiai Carita]

[QUOTE=Ian]Marto:

Thanks for clarifying the name for this tool. I, too, called this particular example a golok when I acquired it. Then I found a nearly identical chopper in v. Zonneveld (p. 34) which he identified as a bendo from West Java. So, even Mr. v. Z. can make a mistake, or perhaps there is a regional variation in terms that differs from your own experience. In any case, it is very confusing for someone from a different culture trying to understand these terms from a distance.

Kiai Carita says: in my travels to Pasundan region in the past I have never heard the word bendho. It sounds too funny and alien to the Sundanese ear, it is a javanese word and a javanese tool not really used in the West of Java. A Western writer with a Javanese informer might say it is a Sundanese bendho but that would be the Javanese name ... Sundanese prefer goloks. The goloks of Ciwedei are of superior quality to most bendho made in Java. Goloks have important martial usage as well.

[Henk]

Ian,

I really understand that you are a bit confused. Don't worry, so am I. The weapon you show is similar to the bendo in the book by Van Zonneveld. I have a similar one but the hilt is more a golok hilt. When I got my bendo, to give the thing at least a name, I thought it was a golok, but refering Van Zonneveld I found out it was a bendo.

But I'm very happy with the input Kiai and Marto are bringing up. I know that the names of weapons and knives, machetes(choppers) do vary in the Archipello and that names are used to point out a group of weapons/tools. Just like you said Marto, a parang is a general name for a chopper. Apparantly the name bendho or bendo could be a general name for a chopper as well. Van Zonneveld describes the bendo as a tool with an agrarian purpose. And this object that I'm showing could be very well an agrarian tool. The sickle formed tip looks excelent for pruning to me.

I was very surprised by the identification of "kudhi". Sure, it has a kudhi shape. But as far as I know a kudhi is described as a talismanic dagger for a priest. But as Kiai pointed out the pusaka type of a kudhi is called a kujang. May I presume that the small old version of a kudhi with a pamor blade, presented in the literature as a kudhi, that that description is not completely correct? and should be presented as a kujang?

Just like Ian, I'm getting a bit dizzy but it is a most interesting subject.
Marto with the reference of his wife with her background (my regards to the Mrs.) and the visions of Kiai.

Thanks, Henk

[tom hyle]

Interesting that the swelling seems to be thought of as distinctly SE Asian; I had considered it fairly distinctly European; interesting if we ever find out which way that spread.
BTW, The term recurve is AFAIK being used incorrectly here. A recurved blade is not one that curves forward (is the thinking that this is a "re"verse curve?), but one that curves one way, and then the other, usually forward and then back (ie curves and then re-curves; to re-do means to do again; curves then curves again; note that a sword is spoken of as curving; the verb form is used, even though it is not actually performing action, but just sitting there with a curve; seems odd to me suddenly, and perhaps to non-native readers of English, but language often is odd, and this usage is not limitted to weapons); thus the cutting edge of this sword is techincally recurved, though in the opposite of the usual manner; more normally recurved edges are on kukuri, for instance. More swords have a recurved cutting edge than an overall recurved shape. More usually the swelling this implies is toward the tip (ala kukuri), rather than toward the base of the blade, as here, but then that may just be of examples I've seen, and may be influenced by the prevalence of weapons over tools in my sampling of foreign blades........

[Kiai Carita]

[QUOTE=marto suwignyo]Kiai yth

Marto Suwignyo asks:

1) the approximate location of the place where Henk`s tool is known as an "arit gedhe".

2) what a tool that looks like Henk`s tool, but without the swelling in the blade---that is, something like a European billhook or pruning hook---would be called in this place.

3) the approximate location where the tool with the axe-like projection near the handle is known as a "kudhi".

...

Kiai Carita answers: Firstly I should have not used the word never, never this never that East of Solo or West of Yogya...as you say names of everyday objects can vary from village to village and also, from generation to generation.

1. I have heard and used the word arit gedhe to refer to that blade in the area of the Madiun residency and even Wonogiri.

2. Even without the belly it would still be either bendho or arit gedhe. Arit gedhe is not arit-sing-gedhe.

3 The location of the kudi, I think you might find in remote West and East Jawa, but most definitely in the PAST. Visit areas under influence of Demak in the 15th century and you will see this tool used by many people. The small, pusaka version of a kudi is called a kujang.

Hormat
Kiai Carita.