Sulawesi (toraja?) keris

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

I visited the Toraja area 15 years ago and there were absolutely no genuine or even tourist piece for sale so these pieces are quite rare to find.

I wonder if this is not because Toraja really has no long standing keris culture to speak of. When did the keris first come to Toraja? It has obviously been incorporated somewhat into their rituals (i believe into their elaborate death ceremonies), but it seems to me that this didn't take place until the 20th century. This particular highland culture of Sulawesi was rather insular before then. Their culture, architecture, symbolism, specific animistic beliefs and rituals, are very unique to the area. Even to this day they are different from the majority of Indonesians as their culture has, for the most part, adopted Protestant Christianity as it's religion, with only a 5% muslim population. Has anyone seen a well provenanced 19th century Torajan keris?
I searched through some photos looking for some Torajan keris culture. It is interesting to note that in the photos below keris are only carried by very specific women in the ceremonies shown. In some of the overview ceremonial images i see no keris present. The keris held by the singular woman is clearly in Javanese dress. I cannot see the dress clearly enough in the image of the two women w/keris to know if there is anything specifically Tojaran about them or if they are Bugis style keris.
Here is a nice overview of the Tojara.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toraja

[David]

Of course i did find this image of a giant statue of a Toraja warrior that stands in Makale. Anyone have an idea when this was made?
Also here is an old image of 3 old warriors with a Dutch Salvation Army official in 1930. Notably missing from their attire is any presence of keris.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/l...jectID=2033618

Please note that the saleroom notice from Christie says that:
"The entry should read: Sulawesi, Bugis, gold keris" so this is not a Toraja kris.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Please note that the saleroom notice from Christie says that:
"The entry should read: Sulawesi, Bugis, gold keris" so this is not a Toraja kris.

Yes Jean, i did note that and was going to throw it in with my argument, but forgot, so thank you.
So what exactly is a Torajan keris then. What provenance leads us to believe that either yours or Marcos originated in this very specific culture?

Edit: Oh, i see what happened there. I posted the wrong link in that place. I had meant to post this Wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toraja
I will also amend that post, thanks, but your remark about this particular keris from Christies still holds true...

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Yes Jean, i did note that and was going to throw it in with my argument, but forgot, so thank you.
So what exactly is a Torajan keris then. What provenance leads us to believe that either yours or Marcos originated in this very specific culture?

Edit: Oh, i see what happened there. I posted the wrong link in that place. I had meant to post this Wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toraja
I will also amend that post, thanks, but your remark about this particular keris from Christies still holds true...

Hello David,
Sorry for the late reply, I was travelling today.
I don't know much about Toraja krisses but 2 main issues:
. The kris was present and an important symbol at least within the Toraja noble population until recently, and I know of 2 Torajan people who owned a gold kris pusaka during my stay in Kalimantan in the 1990's, unfortunately I could not see the pieces (one was stolen, and the other kept in a bank safe!).
. To me the genuine Toraja krisses are derived from the old royal krisses from Makassar/ Gowa/Bima like the specimen from Christie's but the craftsmanship is much inferior, the hilt seems to depict a Toraja ancestor rather than an Hindu hero, and the sampir has a similar shape to the Bugis krisses. I attach the picture of a good replica of a royal South Sulawesi kris so you can see the difference with the Toraja kris from Marco and mine.
Best regards
Jean

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

I don't know much about Toraja krisses but 2 main issues:
. The kris was present and an important symbol at least within the Toraja noble population until recently, and I know of 2 Torajan people who owned a gold kris pusaka during my stay in Kalimantan in the 1990's, unfortunately I could not see the pieces (one was stolen, and the other kept in a bank safe!).
. To me the genuine Toraja krisses are derived from the old royal krisses from Makassar/ Gowa/Bima like the specimen from Christie's but the craftsmanship is much inferior, the hilt seems to depict a Toraja ancestor rather than an Hindu hero, and the sampir has a similar shape to the Bugis krisses. I attach the picture of a good replica of a royal South Sulawesi kris so you can see the difference with the Toraja kris from Marco and mine.

Perhaps then the keris in Toraja remained in the sphere of noble families only. But still, you say you never actually set eyes on these gold pusaka, so how do you know that they are indigenous Toraja keris and not from some other culture in Sulawesi, Java or elsewhere (Toraja nobles were know to marry nobles from outside their culture on occassion) ? How do you know what quality there were compared to a royal South Sulawesi keris?
Here are the questions i am not hearing answers to:
1. Why don't the 3 Torajan warriors from the 1930 photograph have keris amongst their weapons?
2. Why is it mainly women who seem to me carrying keris in the ceremonies i have shown in both photos and videos when the keris is for the most part a male dominated cultural symbol throughout most of the rest of Indonesia?
3. What evidence do we have that the keris was an important cultural item in Toraja pre, let's say, 1970? 1940? 1909?
4. None of the keris that i can spot in any of the photos or videos seem to be dressed in a similar fashion to either Jean's or Marco's keris. Why?

[David]

Thanks for the image Jean. Is that off the internet because i missed that one. Much in the same dress mode as yours i would say, so strike my question #4 and change "none" to "most"...

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for the image Jean. Is that off the internet because i missed that one. Much in the same dress mode as yours i would say, so strike my question #4 and change "none" to "most"...

Hello David,
I scanned this image from a Sulawesi touristic guide (Periplus) published in 1995. It looks a real gold kris and is more similar to the royal krisses from Makassar/ Gowa/ Bima.
Best regards
Jean

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Perhaps then the keris in Toraja remained in the sphere of noble families only. But still, you say you never actually set eyes on these gold pusaka, so how do you know that they are indigenous Toraja keris and not from some other culture in Sulawesi, Java or elsewhere (Toraja nobles were know to marry nobles from outside their culture on occassion) ? How do you know what quality there were compared to a royal South Sulawesi keris?
Here are the questions i am not hearing answers to:
1. Why don't the 3 Torajan warriors from the 1930 photograph have keris amongst their weapons?
2. Why is it mainly women who seem to me carrying keris in the ceremonies i have shown in both photos and videos when the keris is for the most part a male dominated cultural symbol throughout most of the rest of Indonesia?
3. What evidence do we have that the keris was an important cultural item in Toraja pre, let's say, 1970? 1940? 1909?
4. None of the keris that i can spot in any of the photos or videos seem to be dressed in a similar fashion to either Jean's or Marco's keris. Why?

Hello David,
I will try to reply but have reached my limits so please consider my comments as personal and uncontrolled opinions only....
I did not actually see the gold krisses from the 2 Toraja gentlemen indeed but saw 1 or 2 pieces in a local museum which from memory were very similar to mine.
Yes, the blades of these krisses were possibly imported especially for the high quality ones, but note the large similarities and peculiar features of the blade from Marco and mine. I personally think that the sheaths & hilts were made locally as they are different from those from South Sulawesi which all have burung style hilts especially.
Question 1. To me the kris rather seems to have been a ceremonial weapon among the Toraja so it has not much to do with a warrior attire. And look at these guys, do they look like nobles or commoners?
Question 2. I have no idea why the women wore the krisses and not the men on the pictures but in the 2 cases which I know, they were clearly the property of the patriarch and passed from father to son AFAIK.
Question3. No idea especially because the Torajas were not well known until the 20th century.
Question 4. Besides my additional picture, the 2 "gold" krisses worn by women on one of your pictures look similar to mine although we cannot see the details. The videos are all recent and the girls wear tourist krisses so I won't rely on them... I will try to find other pictures or references.

Is there any member originating from Sulawesi who could tell us more?
Best regards
Jean

[David]

I hope you understand, Jean, that i have no "horse in this race", so to speak. I am just trying to sort out fact from conjecture and get a better grasp on the keris culture of Toraja and what it means. I also never intended that you be the only one to answer all my questions. They are not directed specifically at you, but at the community here as a whole, so i do indeed hope that others here can fill in the spaces when our own personal knowledge and research has run dry.
It seems obvious that the Torajan culture has its own specific take on the keris. As we know, in most Indonesian cultures the keris is, among other things, a symbol of manhood and lineage and is for the most part the provence of the men in the society. Patrems exist in these cultures, but they seem the exception, not the rule. From what i can see in these photos and videos it is quite the opposite story in Toraja. Toraja does not have a patriarchal society. Unlike other areas of Indonesia lineage is bilateral, so children inherit from both sides of the family. Women own property just as men do.
Even once the keris become a ceremonial weapon in Java i believe it would still be worn by a warrior because of the everything else it means within that society. It is possible that the keris was never a true weapon in Toraja, but then i would imagine that it came into their culture somewhat late on the general timeline of keris history. As for your question about the status level of the 3 old warriors, it may well be so that they are "commoners". Of course, in most areas with keris culture the keris has trickled down to commoner status level. Every man, even a commoner, would strive to own a keris. Then we must ask if this is not the case in Toraja, who was Marco's keris made for, because it certainly does not seem to be made on the level of quality and materials that would be worthy of a noble. I would think that if it were not made for a commoner, if only nobles in Toraja own keris, then Marco's most likely was intended for the tourist market. Yours, being of a higher quality with gold seems more likely to have had a different intention.
I don't know how you can tell what kind of keris the girls are carrying in the wedding video. The women in the dance video seem to be carrying props, not real keris at all. The keris in the funeral rituals look real enough, but it's impossible to tell without handling them. But these are real ceremonies in these videos even if they are open to the public. They are, unfortunately, all we have to rely on for now for a look at the current state of keris culture in Toraja.