Dagger ID required

Atlantia · 25th November 2010, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Not SE Asia, not India, not Persia, not sub-saharan Africa (IMHO).

The hilt and the zigzag decorations appear quite distinctive - maybe Artzi or some of the other long-time collectors of N/NE African and Near East pieces can comment?

Regards,
Kai

If two books have got it wrong, do any others have a different identification? I've searched mine to no avail.
Although this has been a very helpful thread in as much as I now know that the two I've been offered are WAY overpriced! lol
I think you're right Kai, without more input this will remain a subject of mystery!
Thanks
Gene

Tim Simmons · 26th November 2010, 05:50 PM

Searching searching finding this in " Swords & Daggers, Frederick Wilkinson " Clearly there is much movement to and from the Horn of Africa and the Arabian peninsular. I hope to come up with more, this is rather a fancy example.

Emanuel · 26th November 2010, 08:03 PM

Here's one I posted for comment a while ago.
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12115
I had thought maybe a huge tourist Iraqi Marsh Arab jambiya type.
Alex figured EAst African, mid-20th.

ariel · 27th November 2010, 03:23 PM

Folks,
We have the advantage of having the author of the "indonesian" book right here on this Forum.
Most of the objects in the book come from highly respectable Dutch museums, the rest come from equally respectable Dutch private collections.

Would it be possible to check the provenance of the dagger illustrated in the book? Is it a solitary example or a defined pattern? The former may be a curiosity brought from Africa, the latter implies local manufacture.

I often marveled at the similarity between the two, viewing it as an example of co-incidental, parallel development. Would be nice to know the real story, wouldn't it?

Atlantia · 27th November 2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Folks,
We have the advantage of having the author of the "indonesian" book right here on this Forum.
Most of the objects in the book come from highly respectable Dutch museums, the rest come from equally respectable Dutch private collections.

Would it be possible to check the provenance of the dagger illustrated in the book? Is it a solitary example or a defined pattern? The former may be a curiosity brought from Africa, the latter implies local manufacture.

I often marveled at the similarity between the two, viewing it as an example of co-incidental, parallel development. Would be nice to know the real story, wouldn't it?

Well, thats a very interesting turn of events!

kai · 28th November 2010, 01:35 AM

Hello Ariel,

Quote:

Would it be possible to check the provenance of the dagger illustrated in the book?

It came from Willem van der Post's collection and I've emailed him for more info on this piece.

Quote:

Is it a solitary example or a defined pattern? The former may be a curiosity brought from Africa, the latter implies local manufacture.

IMHO, it doesn't resemble any Indonesian craftmanship.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 28th November 2010, 01:29 AM

Quote:

If two books have got it wrong, do any others have a different identification?

Hello Gene,

Not necessarily wrong - most books and museums state where a piece was collected and this is most likely correct. In this case, there was no in-depth discussion and I don't think it wasn't implied to have been crafted in W Java (or by any Batak group for the other example).

Regards,
Kai

26th November 2010, 05:50 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Searching searching finding this in " Swords & Daggers, Frederick Wilkinson " Clearly there is much movement to and from the Horn of Africa and the Arabian peninsular. I hope to come up with more, this is rather a fancy example. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 26th November 2010 at 06:29 PM. Reason: spelling

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26th November 2010, 08:03 PM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Here's one I posted for comment a while ago. http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12115 I had thought maybe a huge tourist Iraqi Marsh Arab jambiya type. Alex figured EAst African, mid-20th.

27th November 2010, 03:23 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Folks, We have the advantage of having the author of the "indonesian" book right here on this Forum. Most of the objects in the book come from highly respectable Dutch museums, the rest come from equally respectable Dutch private collections. Would it be possible to check the provenance of the dagger illustrated in the book? Is it a solitary example or a defined pattern? The former may be a curiosity brought from Africa, the latter implies local manufacture. I often marveled at the similarity between the two, viewing it as an example of co-incidental, parallel development. Would be nice to know the real story, wouldn't it?