Another Dayak Sword

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo Everybody

Originally Posted by Dinggat

.....
Sabel Marechaussee was a good keyword. Found lots of pages via Google, among them several threads on Vikingsword Klewang being the Indonesian name for it. Can we be sure it is a copy, judging solely from the two photos?.....

I've tried to get a better look at the pictures.

First of all, my apologies for a typo. The year of manufacture I was referring to in my initial reply was circa 1909, NOT circa 1902.

WRT the photos.... too many uncertainties...
For instance, from the angle:
The tang screw appears smaller than normal... but is it so?
The scale rivets appear to have 'X' marks... is it so? If so, are they punch marks or Phillips counter-sunk screw-heads?
I can't detect any 'square corners' where there should be on the cut-outs of the guard...is it so?

BTW... Klewang is not the specific Indonesian word for it, as klewang is a generic name used for a variety of edged weapons in the Archipelago. Only the Dutch use it specifically for this weapon.The specific Indonesian name for it is Pedang Marsose.

Best,

[asomotif]

..I prefer to look at it the other way... and say that the above was the field-developed model on which the M1911 was based. These were produced by local smiths and tested in the field before being accepted for European manufacture.

Although these hand made pieces are difficult to put a date on, this can be an early production. But still, the handguard and blade are based on the dutch dutch Cavalrieswords Model 1846 and 1875.
And the specific bladetip can even be recognised in the Model 1813 cavalry sword.

I can't detect any 'square corners' where there should be on the cut-outs of the guard...is it so?

The square corners are IMO typical of the dutch factory produced Hembrug examples. (see picture)

Always interesting how some first "stamp" sized pictures bring up te reactions.
BTW There is a nice book on the militairy Klewang by Mr. J.P.. Puype.

Best regards,
Willem

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

I have no wish to enter into debate on this, so I'll simply end this matter (as far as I'm concerned) with my opinion on a couple of points:

Originally Posted by asomotif

..... still, the handguard and blade are based on the dutch dutch Cavalrieswords Model 1846 and 1875......

Here we differ Willem. I believe the Kalewang handguard to be a direct copy of the Dutch Cavalry Officer's Sabre M1876 minus the irritating protrusion. I acknowledge that the hilts of the M1846 & M1875 were used on earlier locally-produced blades (you, may call them Proto-Klewangs), but I think that these hilts had 'wire' guards, not sheet-metal with cut-outs.

Originally Posted by asomotif

.....The square corners are IMO typical of the dutch factory produced Hembrug examples.....

Here we may differ again.... While 'square corners' may be typical of Hembrug, I believe both Lilley-Ames and Vince also produced guards with 'square corners' for the 1941 KNIL contract.

Originally Posted by asomotif

.....a nice book on the militairy Klewang by Mr. J.P.. Puype.....

As you seem fond of referring to Mr. Puype, may I suggest that you perhaps 're-visit' him and/or his book.
Should you then feel that you may have incontrovertible evidence that I am in error, please let me know and I will be only too glad to make any appropriate adjustment.

Otherwise..... we will have to agree to disagree..

Best,