Marks in European sword

Jim McDougall · 26th October 2010, 06:25 AM

Not silly at all Ron! All we can do is speculate at this point as we are working virtually in the dark, but that is a well reasoned thought. One thing I had forgotten in the sun face, and while we know this is a well known talismanic blade motif, I just realized that this symbol was also used in the Philippines end of the 19th century by forces I believe in Luzon (not my field so not certain).

The main thing here is input, and its rewarding to see ideas and observations placed .

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 28th October 2010, 02:06 PM

Hi guys,
First of all, please accept my apologies for having driven you in the wrong direction. The initials, although a bit tricky to decipher, are definitely not WI. Perhaps a WH, in a monogram form. This punction is much closer from the hilt than i was told; could well be a maker's mark. Curiously it is situated on the left side

... is this a common procedure?
The 78 cms (31") blade could well be for Cavalry; the three fullers are the "groove" type, instead of the "depression" seen in British sabres ... if i know what i am talking about

.
The (faded) sun is much larger than i thought.
The grip could (could) be horn.
I hope you Gentlemen may redirect your analizis and offer further coments on this sword ... namely on the markings riddle.

.

Dmitry · 28th October 2010, 03:32 PM

My $0.02
Portugal, 1820s onward. Blade could be earlier, ca.1805.

fernando · 28th October 2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

My $0.02
Portugal, 1820s onward. Blade could be earlier, ca.1805.

Thank you.
That also came to my mind but, unfortunately, i can't check it; there isn't much written/pictured material on Portuguese weapons.
The blade will not be national, anyhow; we don't use the letter "W".

Norman McCormick · 28th October 2010, 06:50 PM

Hi,
Could be HM?
Regards,
Norman.

fernando · 28th October 2010, 07:00 PM

Hi McNorman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
Could be HM?
Regards,
Norman.

I wouldn't think so. Firstly due to its direction in relation to the hilt and secondly the font style would look a bit awckward.

Dmitry · 28th October 2010, 07:30 PM

The blade conforms to the Portuguese 1806 pattern sabers, and is probably English-made, which is not surprising, considering the anorexic state of the Portuguese manufacturing at that time, and the British friendship [some would say domination]. I have seen this mark on the tangs of the English blades exported to the US in the first quarter of 1800s. The hilt is in the British 1821 style.

Norman McCormick · 29th October 2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi McNorman

I wouldn't think so. Firstly due to its direction in relation to the hilt and secondly the font style would look a bit awckward.

Hi Fernando,
I would probably think you're correct 'hoots mon the noo'.

Photo is the basket on an Osborn example of the 1821 L.C. for comparison.

Hi Ron,
The 1821 L.C. Troopers sabre had a fullered spearpoint blade before 1845.

Regards,
Norman.

28th October 2010, 02:06 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi guys, First of all, please accept my apologies for having driven you in the wrong direction. The initials, although a bit tricky to decipher, are definitely not WI. Perhaps a WH, in a monogram form. This punction is much closer from the hilt than i was told; could well be a maker's mark. Curiously it is situated on the left side ... is this a common procedure? The 78 cms (31") blade could well be for Cavalry; the three fullers are the "groove" type, instead of the "depression" seen in British sabres ... if i know what i am talking about . The (faded) sun is much larger than i thought. The grip could (could) be horn. I hope you Gentlemen may redirect your analizis and offer further coments on this sword ... namely on the markings riddle. . Attached Images

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26th October 2010, 06:25 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Not silly at all Ron! All we can do is speculate at this point as we are working virtually in the dark, but that is a well reasoned thought. One thing I had forgotten in the sun face, and while we know this is a well known talismanic blade motif, I just realized that this symbol was also used in the Philippines end of the 19th century by forces I believe in Luzon (not my field so not certain). The main thing here is input, and its rewarding to see ideas and observations placed . All the best, Jim

28th October 2010, 03:32 PM	#3
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	My $0.02 Portugal, 1820s onward. Blade could be earlier, ca.1805.

28th October 2010, 06:50 PM	#5
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,646	Hi, Could be HM? Regards, Norman.

28th October 2010, 07:30 PM	#7
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	The blade conforms to the Portuguese 1806 pattern sabers, and is probably English-made, which is not surprising, considering the anorexic state of the Portuguese manufacturing at that time, and the British friendship [some would say domination]. I have seen this mark on the tangs of the English blades exported to the US in the first quarter of 1800s. The hilt is in the British 1821 style.