Templar Sword?

[Cesare]

Ciao a tutti
Voglio ringraziare Jim, David, Fernando, Michael, e tutt gli altri amici che hanno contribuito al thread.

Devo dire che condivido le vostre conclusioni.
La spada è quanto meno interessante sotto molti punti di vista.
Non possiamo affermare con sicurezza che è la spada dei templari o dei cavalieri di San Giovanni.
Comunque è una magnifica spada. Impugnarla è un vero piacere.
Io aggiungo che molto probabilmente la spada è un remake di una più antica.
L'impugnatura è piccola, sproporzionata col resto della spada. La tipologia della lama, come giustamente sottolinea John, è più antica rispetto al fornimento . Del resto le lame costavano moltissimo, quindi non meravigliamoci se venivano riciclate.
Tempo fa ho visionato uno spadino con lama a frantopino. della fine del 1600 ÷ inizio 1700.
La lama era stata ricavata modificando una firmata da un noto spadaio di Toledo e datata 1525.

Presto vi proporrò nuove e interessanti armi. La collezione del museo è piuttosto corposa.

A presto
Cesare

Hello everyone
I want to thank Jim, David, Fernando, Michael, and all other friends who have contributed to the thread.

I must say that I agree with your conclusions.
The sword is at least interesting from many points of view.
We can not say with certainty that it is the sword of the Templars or the Knights of St. John.
However, it is a magnificent sword. Challenge it is a real pleasure.
I would add that the sword is most likely a remake of an older one.
The grip is small and disproportionate to the rest of the sword. The type of blade, as John rightly points out, is older than the hilt. Moreover, the blade is very expensive, so do not be surprised if they were recycled.

Some time ago I reviewed a small sword with frantopino blade dated from late 1600 to early 1700.
The blade was derived by changing one, signed by a famous swordsmith of Toledo and dated 1525 !

Soon I will propose new and interesting weapons. The museum's collection is quite substantial.

See you soon
Cesare

[Matchlock]

We sure are all eyes to see more of the museum's treasures, Cesare!

Best,
Michael

[Jim McDougall]

I agree Cesare, we look forward to more of these amazing treasures. Who knows how many mysteries lie hidden in them, very much like the mystery of those blade markings on this one!

While the answer to the markings on this blade defy our attention, perhaps new mysteries will have more results in our discussions.

A note to Dmitry, thank you for your notes from the Boccia & Coelho reference! I had meant to include that but got lost in my ramblings (as usual .

All best regards,
Jim

[Lee]

First, my apologies for how long it has taken me to reply to this thread. This is an amazingly nice sword and I genuinely appreciate your sharing it with us.

I apologize for the poor technical quality of the photograph, but this is from the blade of a Viking Age sword of mid-tenth century date:



Two groups of three lines each on the forte, perpendicular to the length executed as iron inlays in a pattern welded blade (Oakeshott Records X.4). I obviously do not know the meaning of the pattern, but here is an earlier iteration of it.

At first glance the blade really looked Oakeshott X / Geibig 5 to me, but the more I look at it I have come to believe the best fit is an Oakeshott XII. Mr. Oakeshott was revising his dates earlier towards the end of his life and he places a number of these blades with silver inlays into the 11th century, so my personal suspicion is that this is from the eleventh through first half of the twelfth century (1000-1150). As noted above, a brazil nut form 'moving' to round. Peek at the pommel of JPO2242 from Paris (Swords of the Viking Age pp 128-130) and the blade of NM1174:1 from Helsinki (SVA pp 138-139).

[terry1956]

Hi Lee. Pattern is just that a pattern showing on the blade produced from the action of welding the metal together. strips of metal maybe 5 or 6 strips sometimes more each strip of metal having various degrees of carbon .would be heated and hammered together time and time again to produce the blade. At any time during the process if the metal gets to hot or cold the whole process was wreaked and started again using new metal.
what the pattern shows on the blade is the joining lines of these metal strips.
hope that helps explain things a little better. michael

[cornelistromp]

Hi all,

Pommel and blade inscription:
The pommel is indeed a final phase of the brazil-nut pommel. Oakeshott published in the sword in the Age of chivalry, a copper grave work of an alter made by Rodkerus of Helemeshausen in 1118. see picture.
Oakeshott quote"these inscriptions are not in the form of names,........,but of various apparently meaningless combinations of upright lines, crosses and circles,and in one case an interlaced pattern"Unquote.

the very short grip:
As can be also seen on this work the hand is too large for the grip.
Oakeshotts explanation is that the curve of the pommel in combination with the short grip gives a firm support to the hand and acts as a fulcrum to help an upward swing of the sword.

Classification:
the sword is typically an Oakeshott type XII but an early one with the characteristic of the short grip of the type XI.
After the important finds of Viking graves at Ristiina/Kangassalain/Finland by Jorma Leppaaho published in 1964. al lot of of type XI and XII had to be re-dated in the several museums and corrected in literature, which Oakeshott did in ROMS.
this sword can be dated in the period Lee indicates.1100-1150



regards,