Blade for ID

Dmitry · 12th July 2010, 06:21 AM

Could also be a spear/pike head..?

Jim McDougall · 12th July 2010, 05:26 PM

I'm inclined to agree with Broadaxe in his thoughts on this. I am under the impression that spears and polearms typically were socketed with support langets, though I know in African weapons the tangs went into the hafts on axes etc. To me the holes in the tang were for rivets through the grip.

fernando · 12th July 2010, 09:43 PM

Thank you all Gentleman, for your input.
I guess i am now reconsidering Gene's first hint.
Indeed if no evidence shows up to prove otherwise, it is quite plausible that this is a handmade throwing knife blade assuming, as suggested by Broadaxe, that its large dimensions were meant for public show, such as in a circus.
This is quite a different approach as it would explain the difference between those elegant stylized factory made blades and this rather sturdy and irregular example
Fernando

Dmitry · 13th July 2010, 06:18 AM

With the center of gravity being closer to the tang than to the point of the blade, I have doubts about this being a throwing knife. It looks more like a spear/spontoon head. Judging from the surviving examples, majority were of socket design, but there are also period pieces with a tang which would have been inset into the wooden pole, with or without the rivets.
For argument's sake, the easiest way to verify or disprove this would be to tie a piece of wood to the tang to serve as an imaginary handle, and throw this thing 10 times into a piece of cardboard or what not, to see which end of it hits first.

Atlantia · 13th July 2010, 08:05 AM

Knife throwing (for show purposes) has a long history. Could it be a vintage or even antique Circus/Sideshow item?
Obviously these arent the same, but it shows that there are old 'better' quality throwing knives. If you had one of these without the handle it might well look like a spear head or something.

fearn · 13th July 2010, 05:57 PM

My first take was throwing knife, too, especially with the way it's sharpened and the fact that the balance is near the middle.

Most spears either seem to have a rat-tail tang or (more commonly) a socketed base. That wide base with two rivet holes really suggests a knife handle to me.

As for the leaf shape--that goes back to the bronze age, so it's not a great clue unfortunately.

Best,

F

fernando · 13th July 2010, 07:33 PM

Gentlemen,
Here is a link in that, if you care to digest the whole contents, you sure end up being a skilled knife thrower.

http://www.knifethrowing.info/physic..._throwing.html

Being a rather impatient guy, i tried to make a surgical reading, just to unpuzzle a couple situations, like:
It looks like the ideal center of balance, as fern well points out, is located more towards the center of the blade than to the point. Looking at the diagram and comparing with my picture, it appears that this (my) specific example has a throwing knife true balance.
It seems as throwing knives are either held by the blade or by the handle, depending on the tecnique and knife model. Once held by the blade, the correct manner is influenced by the blade being or not sharpened ... and in one or both sides. I always wondered why this (my) blade has one edge sharpened longer than the other. These things don't happen without a reason; maybe this was connected with its owner style of holding it?
It also appears that the reduced length of handles is a current situation; not much comfort there.
Concerning the size, it looks like this (my) example is rather larger than largest sport models. Therefore the circus possibility could have been the issue. You don't go do a public paying spetacle by throwing pocket size knives around the target lady

.
Fernando

13th July 2010, 06:18 AM	#4
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	With the center of gravity being closer to the tang than to the point of the blade, I have doubts about this being a throwing knife. It looks more like a spear/spontoon head. Judging from the surviving examples, majority were of socket design, but there are also period pieces with a tang which would have been inset into the wooden pole, with or without the rivets. For argument's sake, the easiest way to verify or disprove this would be to tie a piece of wood to the tang to serve as an imaginary handle, and throw this thing 10 times into a piece of cardboard or what not, to see which end of it hits first. Attached Images Last edited by Dmitry; 13th July 2010 at 06:47 AM.

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12th July 2010, 06:21 AM	#1
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Could also be a spear/pike head..?

12th July 2010, 05:26 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	I'm inclined to agree with Broadaxe in his thoughts on this. I am under the impression that spears and polearms typically were socketed with support langets, though I know in African weapons the tangs went into the hafts on axes etc. To me the holes in the tang were for rivets through the grip.

12th July 2010, 09:43 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you all Gentleman, for your input. I guess i am now reconsidering Gene's first hint. Indeed if no evidence shows up to prove otherwise, it is quite plausible that this is a handmade throwing knife blade assuming, as suggested by Broadaxe, that its large dimensions were meant for public show, such as in a circus. This is quite a different approach as it would explain the difference between those elegant stylized factory made blades and this rather sturdy and irregular example Fernando

13th July 2010, 08:05 AM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Knife throwing (for show purposes) has a long history. Could it be a vintage or even antique Circus/Sideshow item? Obviously these arent the same, but it shows that there are old 'better' quality throwing knives. If you had one of these without the handle it might well look like a spear head or something.

13th July 2010, 05:57 PM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	My first take was throwing knife, too, especially with the way it's sharpened and the fact that the balance is near the middle. Most spears either seem to have a rat-tail tang or (more commonly) a socketed base. That wide base with two rivet holes really suggests a knife handle to me. As for the leaf shape--that goes back to the bronze age, so it's not a great clue unfortunately. Best, F

13th July 2010, 07:33 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Gentlemen, Here is a link in that, if you care to digest the whole contents, you sure end up being a skilled knife thrower. http://www.knifethrowing.info/physic..._throwing.html Being a rather impatient guy, i tried to make a surgical reading, just to unpuzzle a couple situations, like: It looks like the ideal center of balance, as fern well points out, is located more towards the center of the blade than to the point. Looking at the diagram and comparing with my picture, it appears that this (my) specific example has a throwing knife true balance. It seems as throwing knives are either held by the blade or by the handle, depending on the tecnique and knife model. Once held by the blade, the correct manner is influenced by the blade being or not sharpened ... and in one or both sides. I always wondered why this (my) blade has one edge sharpened longer than the other. These things don't happen without a reason; maybe this was connected with its owner style of holding it? It also appears that the reduced length of handles is a current situation; not much comfort there. Concerning the size, it looks like this (my) example is rather larger than largest sport models. Therefore the circus possibility could have been the issue. You don't go do a public paying spetacle by throwing pocket size knives around the target lady . Fernando