good day

[yuanzhumin]

This is not my usual field of expertise but one thing stroke me: the ressemblance of the pattern on the blade of this hunting knife with the traditional pattern of the ancestor snake on the Paiwan swords from Taiwan. As Jim mentioned, this could well be an African python.
If you go to my recent post about a Paiwan knife on Ebay, I'm sure that when looking at the snake on the scabbard, you will see what I mean. I don't think this kind of pattern would be found on a French hunting knife but for sure it could be on an African hunting knife with a strong colonial french influence. Or, even, it could be also an authentic French hunting knife that would have travelled to Africa with its original owner before being passed to a local owner that could have added some design of its own. Just my guess.

[Lew]

The lotus symbol seems to be a form of The Fleur-de-Lis the snake often represents civil war or rebellion against the king in French culture. I am still leaning towards a French hunting trousse. The iron work seems far too good on the guard to be West African. Here is an example of an 18th century French trousse notice the lotus design on the blade at the left and the birds head pommel on the one on the right.

[Tim Simmons]

Yes I can see a slight resemblance to the round end hunting/table knives. However I just cannot see this in anyway made to the taste of the more affluent {European cultural origin} people that would use elaborate hunting knives. The engraving to me is just not right. Something about it reminds me of the engraving seen on Nigerian arm knives with the brass scabbards and brass arm band.
I have to admit the second heavier quillon is very European looking. But I cannot see it as any more sophisticated than much familiar African work. I have a few more pictures. Although the pommels end here with is a lion? head. The form and construction of the handles have a lot in common especially the ferrule before the quillions. They are even decorated in the same manner. As a Benin knife it would be top quality and to me it looks very awkward as European work. What ever it is I like it and good fun thrashing it out.

The pictures are from- black background "De fer et de fierte" Jan Elsen, musse Barbier-Mueller. The other "Seltene Afrikanische Kurzwaffen" Manfred A Zirngibl.

[Lew]

Tim

The piece on the left is of European manufacture and has been embellished tribally. So it is possible that the knife we are discussing was engraved in Africa but it's original manufature was done in Europe.

[RSWORD]

Lew,

Keep in mind that the crossguard could be European made but added to this African piece as recycled parts. Notice that the guard and ferrule are nice iron/steel while the pommel nut seems a bit more crude and brass. I suspect these steel components are salvaged or recycled parts from a European piece of sorts and utilized to enhance this African ceremonial piece.

[G. McCormack]

tricky! This does not feel African in my opinion. The quillons (esp. the treatment of the smaller, thinner one), the button on the hilt, and the treatment of the tang button all point towards a european manufacture in my mind- odd hunting trousse piece is my guess.

[David]

It doesn't feel African to me either and the iron work, engraving and other aspects of this blade are of a quality that surpasses most African work i've seen.

[Tim Simmons]

Could be that there is more African work to see?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Lew,

Keep in mind that the crossguard could be European made but added to this African piece as recycled parts. Notice that the guard and ferrule are nice iron/steel while the pommel nut seems a bit more crude and brass. I suspect these steel components are salvaged or recycled parts from a European piece of sorts and utilized to enhance this African ceremonial piece.

Extremely pertinant suggestion here by Rick, I have seen many examples of unusual weapons etc. refurbished in African context using components much in this manner, often with surprising results. I think that these 'amalgams' often strain our 'forensics' to the limit but the discussions are truly a learning experience for all.

[Tim Simmons]

Would be a shame to drop this so quickly. Alan is right some more views would be most helpful. There was a brass tack for an eye, brass tacks also seen on eastern work but is this middle eastern or Asian?

Looking closely at the engraving and I am now convinced this is not European work, most certainly not for the wealthy type who would have fancy knives?

You can see by the shadow at the bottom of the picture that this is a slim blade and I will suggest that there is no back, more or less the same thickness all along the blade? Okay for a table knife but not very grand for hunting. There are no sizes given but if your hand is on the handle you can make a fair guess as to size.

[A. G. Maisey]

Tim, when I first saw this, and before any comments were made, I had a flash of Central European --- Austrian, Hungarian, Polish.

No logical basis for this, just a feeling.

I've seen that double guard arrangement somewhere, but I can't remember where. I've been through all the books I have available, and that took me a couple of nights. The only knife I could find that had any sort of similarity to this was in the Hollander cutlery collection, and that was a French knife for cutting candy. The raised section on the back of the French knife was for taking the blows needed to drive the blade through hard candy.

When all we can see is just the outline of the knife, without knowing the geometry of the blade, its size and so on, it seems to me to be too big an ask to be able to say what it is.

I agree that the engraving does not look typically Western European, but I cannot find any similar engraving amongst the African examples I've looked at, either.

I guess a couple of years down the track somebody will be able to enlighten us all, and we'll find out that its a knife used by farmers in Central Slobovia for sectioning sides of Slobovian sausage --- or something.

Something that should be considered is the fact that it appears to have a full tang going right through the hilt and anchored at the pommel with a nut, or perhaps piened over. You do not use this construction on a knife unless it is intended to withstand some pretty heavy work. For light usage, a stub tang set in adhesive is good enough. Nope, this is designed as a serious tool. But for what, and from where?

I reckon that the engraving was done prior to heat treat, which means the engraving was done during manufacture, not after. Heat treated steel is too hard for simple manual engraving. So whoever made the thing also arranged, or did, the engraving.