Comments on the blade of this Moro Kris?

Rick · 4th June 2005, 01:03 AM

Most likely Blu , the older blades were much narrower as a general rule .

( No , I'm not going to post another pic of my 'archaic' kris ; Nechesh would explode

)

tom hyle · 4th June 2005, 04:17 AM

The shandigan kris again

Perhaps a butt weld goes with shanidgization...............?..........
Any old kris sundang I've ever handled and examined in person seemed like san mai type lamination. Just saying......
That one closeup looks distinctly like faked pattern, but if so it lacks the usual mistakes that prove so, and it does seem to "run off" the edges of the center panel a bit, as real pattern might do.....I would mention that lam lines in the other part of the blade don't mean much as to faked/real pattern; most old blades with faked pattern are folded/laminated, just not interestingly/complexly.
Real interesting parrallelism to the premedieval and medieval German "Viking" swords (and spears; there was a panelled spear, although it was AFAIK made san-mai style, with overlayed, not thrulayed etched patterned panels.).

Federico · 4th June 2005, 07:15 AM

I have the feeling there was not a wax resist done. If you look at the transition border between the polish and etched area, as well as the lamination hints in the tip, there is a raggedness that is very consistent with after the fact polish vs a more precise wax resist. Also, the polish of the rest of the blade has a very odd grit look, not really typical to these pieces. Looks like an aggressive modern stone vs older pieces. I dunno, hard to explain, Ive just polished enough of these swords to recognise the look.

nechesh · 4th June 2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Most likely Blu , the older blades were much narrower as a general rule .

( No , I'm not going to post another pic of my 'archaic' kris ; Nechesh would explode

)

Yes Rick, there is only so much the kris lust centers (KLC

) of my brain can stand!

tom hyle · 4th June 2005, 05:35 PM

I'd like to add concerning the idea that the pattern could be faked, that the way it seems to go linear and lose its complex pattern toward the end of the etched area seems to argue for it being real.

VVV · 5th June 2005, 09:37 AM

Thank you all for your help and comments on my Kris.

Michael

PS Rick, I at least would like to see your Budiak spearpoint.
Please mail me a picture when you have time.
I also own one of those archaic keris

Bill · 5th June 2005, 02:38 PM

Michael, Could you post pics of the old kris?

VVV · 5th June 2005, 04:14 PM

Bill,

I am not sure at all if my keris really is old or treated somehow to make it look old. But it doesn't look like a regular keris buda.
I will take some pics of it and let you judge.

Bill · 5th June 2005, 06:16 PM

Thanks for posting all the pics. I'm sure your post of the keris will get responce. I wonder if the same manner was used on both the kris & keris, only less on the kris. I guess this is a dangerous subject, too much info may cause some old pieces to get this type of etch. Does anyone have an idea how long this type of etch has been done? I guess an old heirloom piece may have been ecthed some time after its originations, only to enhance it, where if done today, it would be done to enhance value, & in my opinion destroying the piece. Rick, can you post close-ups of the etching on your pieces, do you think they were done by the same process as in Michaels kris? Antiques post a pic from Houlstein, in this old tread http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001982.html , of an unusual piece, if I re-call, it had a deep etch, & Bugis like hilt.

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4th June 2005, 01:03 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Most likely Blu , the older blades were much narrower as a general rule . ( No , I'm not going to post another pic of my 'archaic' kris ; Nechesh would explode )

4th June 2005, 04:17 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The shandigan kris again Perhaps a butt weld goes with shanidgization...............?.......... Any old kris sundang I've ever handled and examined in person seemed like san mai type lamination. Just saying...... That one closeup looks distinctly like faked pattern, but if so it lacks the usual mistakes that prove so, and it does seem to "run off" the edges of the center panel a bit, as real pattern might do.....I would mention that lam lines in the other part of the blade don't mean much as to faked/real pattern; most old blades with faked pattern are folded/laminated, just not interestingly/complexly. Real interesting parrallelism to the premedieval and medieval German "Viking" swords (and spears; there was a panelled spear, although it was AFAIK made san-mai style, with overlayed, not thrulayed etched patterned panels.).

4th June 2005, 07:15 AM	#3
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	I have the feeling there was not a wax resist done. If you look at the transition border between the polish and etched area, as well as the lamination hints in the tip, there is a raggedness that is very consistent with after the fact polish vs a more precise wax resist. Also, the polish of the rest of the blade has a very odd grit look, not really typical to these pieces. Looks like an aggressive modern stone vs older pieces. I dunno, hard to explain, Ive just polished enough of these swords to recognise the look.

4th June 2005, 05:35 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I'd like to add concerning the idea that the pattern could be faked, that the way it seems to go linear and lose its complex pattern toward the end of the etched area seems to argue for it being real.

5th June 2005, 09:37 AM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thank you all for your help and comments on my Kris. Michael PS Rick, I at least would like to see your Budiak spearpoint. Please mail me a picture when you have time. I also own one of those archaic keris

5th June 2005, 02:38 PM	#7
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Michael, Could you post pics of the old kris?

5th June 2005, 04:14 PM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Bill, I am not sure at all if my keris really is old or treated somehow to make it look old. But it doesn't look like a regular keris buda. I will take some pics of it and let you judge.

5th June 2005, 06:16 PM	#9
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Thanks for posting all the pics. I'm sure your post of the keris will get responce. I wonder if the same manner was used on both the kris & keris, only less on the kris. I guess this is a dangerous subject, too much info may cause some old pieces to get this type of etch. Does anyone have an idea how long this type of etch has been done? I guess an old heirloom piece may have been ecthed some time after its originations, only to enhance it, where if done today, it would be done to enhance value, & in my opinion destroying the piece. Rick, can you post close-ups of the etching on your pieces, do you think they were done by the same process as in Michaels kris? Antiques post a pic from Houlstein, in this old tread http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001982.html , of an unusual piece, if I re-call, it had a deep etch, & Bugis like hilt.