Now I have a Tajong!!

Sajen · 3rd May 2010, 11:03 PM

The nose of the hilt is reglued and the big crack at the left side is filled with wood putty and at last the hilt is oiled with wood oil. The wood putty is on the pictures grey from the flash but in nature it is black and have nearly the same colour as the wood.

Sajen · 6th May 2010, 04:54 PM

The blade is cleaned now and I have completed the keris again with an auxiliary-pendokok. Here the pictures.

David · 6th May 2010, 05:30 PM

Nice job Sajen.

Sajen · 6th May 2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Nice job Sajen.

Thank you David.

I am very very happy with this keris and still can't believe how much luck I have had to get it. And I am thankful for all the good restore tips I have got.

Mytribalworld · 6th May 2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

The blade is cleaned now and I have completed the keris again with an auxiliary-pendokok. Here the pictures.

HI Sajen,

Let me first say I really see you did it skillfull and seemly with pleasure.

The makeover however of the scabbard in special is something I really don't unterstand,what I should like ( but I'm not a keris collector!!) is just that enormous old patina on the scabbard !

Arjan

Tatyana Dianova · 7th May 2010, 10:06 AM

Arjan, I believe it was the dirt that Detlef has removed

And all the real patina is still there

A. G. Maisey · 7th May 2010, 10:28 AM

Tatyana is correct Arjan.

Patina on wood is defined as a shine or gloss that is produced by polishing over an extended period of time.

Dirt does not equal patina.

Once the dirt has been removed, then the true patina can be seen.

asomotif · 7th May 2010, 12:24 PM

Patina is not very easy to define.

In some circles patina is seen as a (green) discoloration of metal, either caused by time, or by chemicals.

In ethnographic collecting patina is seen as all changes that come to an object during its life time. This also includes dirt.

For example, I can not imagine that you would take an old fetish statue from Congo and decide to gently remove the dirt in order to reveal its true patina

In this case my choice would have been to leave the dirt or at least some of it.

A. G. Maisey · 7th May 2010, 01:17 PM

We all have our own preferences, true, but words do have a definite meaning, and that meaning is set down in dictionaries.

The original use of the word patina applied only to bronze, and described the usually green incrustation that old bronze can achieve, however as time passed this use was extended to other materials, in respect of patina as it applies to wood, the meaning is pretty much as I gave it:-

the gloss or sheen on wooden furniture produced by age and polishing (Oxford).

This is also the way in which the word "patina" is understood in the antique furniture trade, it is not just an empty dictionary definition.
In the English language use of the word dates from about 1750.

However, dirt is something different to patina:- dirt hides patina, it does not enhance it.

If we like dirt on something as evidence of its age, that is a personal preference, and I would never speak against personal preferences.

But dirt is not patina.

In respect of keris, we are dealing with an iconic cultural object.

It is in fact disrespectful to the spirit and inherited presence of a keris to leave it accomodated in dirty or inferior dress.

If we choose to retain the old dress that it is in when we acquire it, that old dress should be put into as good condition as is possible, out of respect for the keris. However, if the old dress has already deteriorated beyond a restorable state, then we should provide the keris with new clothes.

In my opinion Detlef has acted in exactly the right manner where the keris under discussion is concerned:- he has paid respect to the keris and he has sympathetically restored and cleaned the existing dress, which will ensure that it is preserved for the future.

Sajen · 7th May 2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Tatyana is correct Arjan.

Patina on wood is defined as a shine or gloss that is produced by polishing over an extended period of time.

Dirt does not equal patina.

Once the dirt has been removed, then the true patina can be seen.

Agree complete, I have had cleaned keris handle with water and a mild soap and when it was oiled again the real patina was still visible.

Sajen · 7th May 2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

Arjan, I believe it was the dirt that Detlef has removed

And all the real patina is still there

Thank's Tatyana, it is like you write!

3rd May 2010, 11:03 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,215	The nose of the hilt is reglued and the big crack at the left side is filled with wood putty and at last the hilt is oiled with wood oil. The wood putty is on the pictures grey from the flash but in nature it is black and have nearly the same colour as the wood. Attached Images

6th May 2010, 04:54 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,215	The blade is cleaned now and I have completed the keris again with an auxiliary-pendokok. Here the pictures. Attached Images

7th May 2010, 10:06 AM	#6
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Arjan, I believe it was the dirt that Detlef has removed And all the real patina is still there Last edited by Tatyana Dianova; 7th May 2010 at 10:28 AM.

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6th May 2010, 05:30 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,219	Nice job Sajen.

7th May 2010, 10:28 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Tatyana is correct Arjan. Patina on wood is defined as a shine or gloss that is produced by polishing over an extended period of time. Dirt does not equal patina. Once the dirt has been removed, then the true patina can be seen.

7th May 2010, 12:24 PM	#8
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Patina is not very easy to define. In some circles patina is seen as a (green) discoloration of metal, either caused by time, or by chemicals. In ethnographic collecting patina is seen as all changes that come to an object during its life time. This also includes dirt. For example, I can not imagine that you would take an old fetish statue from Congo and decide to gently remove the dirt in order to reveal its true patina In this case my choice would have been to leave the dirt or at least some of it.

7th May 2010, 01:17 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	We all have our own preferences, true, but words do have a definite meaning, and that meaning is set down in dictionaries. The original use of the word patina applied only to bronze, and described the usually green incrustation that old bronze can achieve, however as time passed this use was extended to other materials, in respect of patina as it applies to wood, the meaning is pretty much as I gave it:- the gloss or sheen on wooden furniture produced by age and polishing (Oxford). This is also the way in which the word "patina" is understood in the antique furniture trade, it is not just an empty dictionary definition. In the English language use of the word dates from about 1750. However, dirt is something different to patina:- dirt hides patina, it does not enhance it. If we like dirt on something as evidence of its age, that is a personal preference, and I would never speak against personal preferences. But dirt is not patina. In respect of keris, we are dealing with an iconic cultural object. It is in fact disrespectful to the spirit and inherited presence of a keris to leave it accomodated in dirty or inferior dress. If we choose to retain the old dress that it is in when we acquire it, that old dress should be put into as good condition as is possible, out of respect for the keris. However, if the old dress has already deteriorated beyond a restorable state, then we should provide the keris with new clothes. In my opinion Detlef has acted in exactly the right manner where the keris under discussion is concerned:- he has paid respect to the keris and he has sympathetically restored and cleaned the existing dress, which will ensure that it is preserved for the future.