Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 3rd May 2010, 08:29 PM   #1
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAHenkel
Detlef, congratulations on your first tajong. Mind you, they're addictive but unfortunately not easy to find.

You have found yourself an example of a fairly early vintage. According to Nik Din's classification system I would say closer to late 18th c than early 19th. In fact I rather doubt that the hilt is original to the sheath because the sheath is, while old, probably not as old as the hilt is. Which isn't saying much since very few of the sheaths contemporaneous to this hilt style have survived. Sheaths were replaced out of hand while hilts were at least somewhat more cherished.

I find the wood used to be most curious as well. It is not at all typical of what was normally used. It looks a bit like a type of wood called kayu jahar, which is a type of kampung wood (meaning it is grown in the village and is rarely found in the "wild"). It is rarely used in kerises although one does find it very occasionally used for the batang of keris or other dagger sheaths. Only the teras (core) is any good - the outer wood is weak and prone to cracking or breaking. I've never seen it used for a hilt before. Whatever it is it clearly is not too resistant to cracking so you should take extra care not to expose it stresses - extreme dryness of humidity, extreme or rapid changes of humidity or of temperature, putting the hilt on too tight etc.

It definitely was carved by a proper tukang though as it is correct in form and motifs but for some long lost reason he chose to use this unusual wood. Looks like a mystery. Some day I will print out pictures and bring them to show Nik Dee. Maybe he will have some insight into the wood.

Thank you Dave (I hope it's ok that I address you like this) for your comment.

I think that I am hooked on them already and my believe is that I never will get one again auspicious like this one.

I am encouraged by your dating of the hilt. The wood is nearly black and very heavy. My guess is that the body of the hilt break when the wire was attached to the pesi and the hilt was forcibly pressed on since the glue look recent. Maybe it happened by the prvious owner.

Would be nice to read what Nik Dee think about the used wood.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2010, 11:03 PM   #2
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,165
Default

The nose of the hilt is reglued and the big crack at the left side is filled with wood putty and at last the hilt is oiled with wood oil. The wood putty is on the pictures grey from the flash but in nature it is black and have nearly the same colour as the wood.
Attached Images
  
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 04:54 PM   #3
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,165
Default

The blade is cleaned now and I have completed the keris again with an auxiliary-pendokok. Here the pictures.
Attached Images
          
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 05:30 PM   #4
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,211
Default

Nice job Sajen.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 05:54 PM   #5
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Nice job Sajen.
Thank you David. I am very very happy with this keris and still can't believe how much luck I have had to get it. And I am thankful for all the good restore tips I have got.

Last edited by Sajen; 6th May 2010 at 06:05 PM.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2010, 08:28 PM   #6
Mytribalworld
Member
 
Mytribalworld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
The blade is cleaned now and I have completed the keris again with an auxiliary-pendokok. Here the pictures.
HI Sajen,

Let me first say I really see you did it skillfull and seemly with pleasure.

The makeover however of the scabbard in special is something I really don't unterstand,what I should like ( but I'm not a keris collector!!) is just that enormous old patina on the scabbard !

Arjan
Mytribalworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2010, 10:06 AM   #7
Tatyana Dianova
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 735
Default

Arjan, I believe it was the dirt that Detlef has removed And all the real patina is still there

Last edited by Tatyana Dianova; 7th May 2010 at 10:28 AM.
Tatyana Dianova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2010, 10:28 AM   #8
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,992
Default

Tatyana is correct Arjan.

Patina on wood is defined as a shine or gloss that is produced by polishing over an extended period of time.

Dirt does not equal patina.

Once the dirt has been removed, then the true patina can be seen.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2010, 12:24 PM   #9
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,228
Default

Patina is not very easy to define.

In some circles patina is seen as a (green) discoloration of metal, either caused by time, or by chemicals.

In ethnographic collecting patina is seen as all changes that come to an object during its life time. This also includes dirt.

For example, I can not imagine that you would take an old fetish statue from Congo and decide to gently remove the dirt in order to reveal its true patina

In this case my choice would have been to leave the dirt or at least some of it.
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2010, 06:13 PM   #10
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Tatyana is correct Arjan.

Patina on wood is defined as a shine or gloss that is produced by polishing over an extended period of time.

Dirt does not equal patina.

Once the dirt has been removed, then the true patina can be seen.
Agree complete, I have had cleaned keris handle with water and a mild soap and when it was oiled again the real patina was still visible.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2010, 06:10 PM   #11
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova
Arjan, I believe it was the dirt that Detlef has removed And all the real patina is still there
Thank's Tatyana, it is like you write!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.