Plz help with ID of 2 Daggers

tom hyle · 14th May 2005, 02:50 PM

Yeah, it does, and all Ottoman/Turkic, of course. These multifullered jobbies seem to have been/be made with a definite "art dagger" side to them, and considerable variation is perhaps attendant to that concept (I'm not trying to say they're not for use, but that visual stunningness and individuality of design seems to be prized in the cutlery from this region; contributing to fanciness/desireability much as do precious materials for instance.).
Justin, I've commonly seen the effect you describe; a bevelled edge fading out into a flat unsharp edge with square corners at the tip. I have not seen it as consistent in any cultural setting, but it seems fairly common on E African spears and daggers, and I think I've seen it on Arab (per se) work, too, and from Europe (difinitely from Europe; the sentence structure got weird on me....). The idea does seem to be to prevent crumpling/"fish-hooking" of the bevel at the tip.
Who wants to talk about the "stall" or "pad" for the pinky finger? Seems a Tartaric feature. Seems to relate to the subhilt/stall/pad for the first one or two fingers also seen on some modern Turkish etc. work, and those to similar features on ancient steppes swords.
Though not usually set off by a grooved line, the narrowing of a tulwar hilt at the top before the pommel may also be related; it provides a similar gripping place for the small finger.
Erlikhan, I want to disagree with you more, just so you'll keep showing me nice pictures

Lots of variety in this region, but the experts and the books have always created an impression/atmosphere of homogeneity that does not seem to be borne out by facts on the ground, pretty well all around the cutlery world.

14th May 2005, 02:50 PM	#12
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Yeah, it does, and all Ottoman/Turkic, of course. These multifullered jobbies seem to have been/be made with a definite "art dagger" side to them, and considerable variation is perhaps attendant to that concept (I'm not trying to say they're not for use, but that visual stunningness and individuality of design seems to be prized in the cutlery from this region; contributing to fanciness/desireability much as do precious materials for instance.). Justin, I've commonly seen the effect you describe; a bevelled edge fading out into a flat unsharp edge with square corners at the tip. I have not seen it as consistent in any cultural setting, but it seems fairly common on E African spears and daggers, and I think I've seen it on Arab (per se) work, too, and from Europe (difinitely from Europe; the sentence structure got weird on me....). The idea does seem to be to prevent crumpling/"fish-hooking" of the bevel at the tip. Who wants to talk about the "stall" or "pad" for the pinky finger? Seems a Tartaric feature. Seems to relate to the subhilt/stall/pad for the first one or two fingers also seen on some modern Turkish etc. work, and those to similar features on ancient steppes swords. Though not usually set off by a grooved line, the narrowing of a tulwar hilt at the top before the pommel may also be related; it provides a similar gripping place for the small finger. Erlikhan, I want to disagree with you more, just so you'll keep showing me nice pictures Lots of variety in this region, but the experts and the books have always created an impression/atmosphere of homogeneity that does not seem to be borne out by facts on the ground, pretty well all around the cutlery world. Last edited by tom hyle; 14th May 2005 at 03:03 PM.