Real Shamshir or Kilij?

Jim McDougall · 7th July 2007, 06:58 PM

Hi FED,
It would appear this is an Ottoman hilt mounted with a European cavalry sabre blade, probably 18th century, though the hilt and scabbard probably furbished sometime in the mid 19th. It is always hard to be precise as these hilts were so widely distributed within the Ottoman sphere, and the form remained traditionally firm so such a long period. With so many blades coming out of Germany, and being used on so many military sabres throughout Europe, it is equally hard to be precise with the blade. The unusually pronounced parabolic curve and type of fuller does suggest mid to late 18th century though. It seems quite possible this sabre may have been assembled during periods of alliances between Ottoman and European forces in the 19th century.

Looks to be an interesting piece! The term 'kilij' or 'kilic' is a Turkish term for curved sword as I understand, and seems applied primarily to the shorter, heavier blade sabre with extremely pronounced yelman and of course the 'Ottoman' hilt of pistol grip form. The shamshir term usually refers to the swept curve Persian blade form without yelman, and typically associated to the simple, yet beautiful, open hilts of the Persian form.

All best regards,
Jim

7th July 2007, 06:58 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi FED, It would appear this is an Ottoman hilt mounted with a European cavalry sabre blade, probably 18th century, though the hilt and scabbard probably furbished sometime in the mid 19th. It is always hard to be precise as these hilts were so widely distributed within the Ottoman sphere, and the form remained traditionally firm so such a long period. With so many blades coming out of Germany, and being used on so many military sabres throughout Europe, it is equally hard to be precise with the blade. The unusually pronounced parabolic curve and type of fuller does suggest mid to late 18th century though. It seems quite possible this sabre may have been assembled during periods of alliances between Ottoman and European forces in the 19th century. Looks to be an interesting piece! The term 'kilij' or 'kilic' is a Turkish term for curved sword as I understand, and seems applied primarily to the shorter, heavier blade sabre with extremely pronounced yelman and of course the 'Ottoman' hilt of pistol grip form. The shamshir term usually refers to the swept curve Persian blade form without yelman, and typically associated to the simple, yet beautiful, open hilts of the Persian form. All best regards, Jim