Tricky Bugis Keris

A. G. Maisey · 20th October 2006, 01:03 AM

Good to see your comments on this, Dave.

I think you have demonstrated admirably what keris discussion is all about:- your experience tells you that you are looking at one thing, mine tells me I am looking at something different---and both of us could be incorrect were we to handle the object.
This whole question of Michael's blade is not about one person being right or wrong, it is about the sharing of opinions, based on what we can see in a picture.

Regarding my suggestion on the "tangguhing" of blades from outside Jawa. I've taken on board what you have said, and it seems to indicate that in your experience it is close to impossible to appraise the physical characteristics of a blade and give an opinion with any certainty upon the place of origin of that blade. I can relate easily to this, as I have encountered a number of blades that were undoubtedly from Palembang, but they have displayed widely varying features.

However, if we forget the Javanese idea of "tangguh", and worked on the basis of a stylistic classification system , and then attributed various styles to specific geographic locations, or perhaps cultural groups.Would this be feasible, or not?

I suspect that it must be, otherwise you would not have offered the opinion that Michael's blade in of Sumatran origin.

Bear in mind one thing:- my whole approach here is blade focussed. Dress is another matter. The objective is to be able to classify a blade by itself, without any dress.

20th October 2006, 01:03 AM	#26
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Good to see your comments on this, Dave. I think you have demonstrated admirably what keris discussion is all about:- your experience tells you that you are looking at one thing, mine tells me I am looking at something different---and both of us could be incorrect were we to handle the object. This whole question of Michael's blade is not about one person being right or wrong, it is about the sharing of opinions, based on what we can see in a picture. Regarding my suggestion on the "tangguhing" of blades from outside Jawa. I've taken on board what you have said, and it seems to indicate that in your experience it is close to impossible to appraise the physical characteristics of a blade and give an opinion with any certainty upon the place of origin of that blade. I can relate easily to this, as I have encountered a number of blades that were undoubtedly from Palembang, but they have displayed widely varying features. However, if we forget the Javanese idea of "tangguh", and worked on the basis of a stylistic classification system , and then attributed various styles to specific geographic locations, or perhaps cultural groups.Would this be feasible, or not? I suspect that it must be, otherwise you would not have offered the opinion that Michael's blade in of Sumatran origin. Bear in mind one thing:- my whole approach here is blade focussed. Dress is another matter. The objective is to be able to classify a blade by itself, without any dress.