Johannes Hoppe Rapier and Dagger

Jim McDougall · 15th March 2023, 11:19 PM

Hi Keith,
Interesting thoughts, but in Mexico, then Spain of course until 1821, there was little use for the rapier in the 17th century, though these were somewhat present with the conquistadors.
In the Spanish southwest, which was sparsely settled, if at all, the swords mostly in use were heavier arming swords such as the 'bilbo' and others and these were again, not in notable numbers.

California in the late 19th c. into 20th became an attractive destination with the favorable weather and prospects for the 'good life'. The 'collecting' thing was really in full swing by the 50s and 60s and actually had been since the 20s.
Movie studios in the fledgling movie making industry making historically based films brought in old arms it seems, in huge volume. Valentino himself was an avid sword collector, who bought many props in trips overseas.

I would say this rapier ended up in its location to a collector there, but as no provenance is noted, hard to say when. Whatever the case, it would be unlikely for a rapier such as this and from Solingen to end up in California or Mexico in these times.

I am presently researching the types of swords being used in California in the late 1700s into 1800s, and there is no evidence of rapiers used there or in the frontier regions of northern Mexico then or in the years earlier.
It does seem there was extended use of the cup hilt and perhaps other rapiers in the Caribbean colonies and Gulf colonies from 1600s and later.

15th March 2023, 11:19 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,668	Hi Keith, Interesting thoughts, but in Mexico, then Spain of course until 1821, there was little use for the rapier in the 17th century, though these were somewhat present with the conquistadors. In the Spanish southwest, which was sparsely settled, if at all, the swords mostly in use were heavier arming swords such as the 'bilbo' and others and these were again, not in notable numbers. California in the late 19th c. into 20th became an attractive destination with the favorable weather and prospects for the 'good life'. The 'collecting' thing was really in full swing by the 50s and 60s and actually had been since the 20s. Movie studios in the fledgling movie making industry making historically based films brought in old arms it seems, in huge volume. Valentino himself was an avid sword collector, who bought many props in trips overseas. I would say this rapier ended up in its location to a collector there, but as no provenance is noted, hard to say when. Whatever the case, it would be unlikely for a rapier such as this and from Solingen to end up in California or Mexico in these times. I am presently researching the types of swords being used in California in the late 1700s into 1800s, and there is no evidence of rapiers used there or in the frontier regions of northern Mexico then or in the years earlier. It does seem there was extended use of the cup hilt and perhaps other rapiers in the Caribbean colonies and Gulf colonies from 1600s and later.