Ancestors of modern sabers

TVV · 4th December 2006, 03:12 AM

Philip,
I believe the Avars were mostly gone by the 9th century AD, destroyed by Charlemagne in the early 9th century and their lands split between the Frankish Empire and the Bulgarian Khanate. They were a major presence in Eastern and Central Europe in the prior few centuries, but I do not think that they should get the credit for bringing the sabre to Europe. Based on archaological finds, the Magyars were the ones who brought the weapon from Asia. The Avars, and the Bulgars used the palash - a straight, single edged slashing weapon, similar to the sabre and perhaps its predecessor, but still not a sabre per se.
I do not know how many sabres have come to the market being recently found in Hungary, but keep in mind that in Bulgaria there have been about a dozen sabre finds, including fragments, for more than a century now. I know, Bulgaria is small, but so is Hungary. Also consider Hungarian laws, which I am pretty certain prohibit the export of antiquities, just as the laws of other Eastern European countries. This does not prove anything, but it makes me suspicious, as there is plenty of incentive for forgers to make good fakes - and believe me, there are some excellent craftsmen in Eastern Europe, who can make superb replicas.
Regards,
Teodor

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4th December 2006, 03:12 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	Philip, I believe the Avars were mostly gone by the 9th century AD, destroyed by Charlemagne in the early 9th century and their lands split between the Frankish Empire and the Bulgarian Khanate. They were a major presence in Eastern and Central Europe in the prior few centuries, but I do not think that they should get the credit for bringing the sabre to Europe. Based on archaological finds, the Magyars were the ones who brought the weapon from Asia. The Avars, and the Bulgars used the palash - a straight, single edged slashing weapon, similar to the sabre and perhaps its predecessor, but still not a sabre per se. I do not know how many sabres have come to the market being recently found in Hungary, but keep in mind that in Bulgaria there have been about a dozen sabre finds, including fragments, for more than a century now. I know, Bulgaria is small, but so is Hungary. Also consider Hungarian laws, which I am pretty certain prohibit the export of antiquities, just as the laws of other Eastern European countries. This does not prove anything, but it makes me suspicious, as there is plenty of incentive for forgers to make good fakes - and believe me, there are some excellent craftsmen in Eastern Europe, who can make superb replicas. Regards, Teodor