Vietnamese Flintlock

ward · 29th September 2007, 09:41 PM

This is a good example of a typical Montenyard gun. The lock on all of these is detachable. octangle barrel,silver barrel bands. Some of the later versions of this rifle use aluminum barrel bands and were shooting previously fired m16 rounds. These were still in active production and use into the early 1970's. The lock I find interesting different form than any other culture I have seen.

Tim Simmons · 29th September 2007, 10:10 PM

I had something very similar. The barrel was from a 19th century Belgian sporting gun. The barrel had originally been bound to the stock with rattan, which had been replaced with aluminium. These are more like a big pistol or I would think fired from the hip. Fascinating things, I wish I had kept mine now but you live and learn. Rather like the very first guns in the early medieval period.

ward · 30th September 2007, 12:11 AM

I believe it was fired from check. slightly different culture but same idea

fernando · 30th September 2007, 01:46 AM

A great piece, Ward.
Could you some time post pictures with different positions ? maybe the action becomes more clear ?
Thanks
fernando

Jim McDougall · 30th September 2007, 02:15 AM

Very interesting weapon! Shows clearly that a weapon need not be 'old' to be a unique ethnographic example and outstanding perspective in a collection. The various tribes known collectively as Montagnards were truly amazing warriors.
Thank you for posting this Ward.

ward · 30th September 2007, 02:55 AM

Here are closups of lock 2 position. the cord is used to pull the hammer. a sticky glue holds the flint on.a piece of deer skin between the hammer and pan acts as a safety.There are 3 springs one for the cocking mechanism. The other for the strike plate and a small one to put tension on trigger.The large piece of deer skin covers the whole mechanism to keep rain out of it.starting in the 1960's they started using a form of cap gun caps in the primer pans. I have talked to a number of vietnam vets who saw these guns in use. this particular example is probaly 1900-1950.this type as far as I aware was used from 1850-1970's

Tim Simmons · 30th September 2007, 10:14 AM

Great picture. Do you think the pistol grip type could be used that way? rather them than me.

fernando · 30th September 2007, 01:38 PM

Fascinating.
It looks unreal.

ward · 30th September 2007, 03:15 PM

I think either by the check or maybe holding a foot from face.This gun uses solid bullets not shot. shot weapons such as shotguns or blunderbusses are the only weapons I know of that are fired from hip. You would need to sight down the barrel to aim.

Fernando I do not understand Unreal. This is not a unique piece. There are more of this type in the market scarce but out there

fernando · 30th September 2007, 05:58 PM

Hi Ward
What you think wasn't my intent, by no means

I know it is an authentic piece, if that is what you are referring.
It was a figure of speech. How to say in other words ?
It is so crude, so gentilic, so unortodox, so not industrial like, so wild, so ethnographic, so naíve looking, that it looks unreal ... not untrue.
I hope this eliminates any doubt.
fernando

ward · 30th September 2007, 06:15 PM

No offense taken just did not know what you meant. I did not think you meant anything negative. All I was trying to convey was this not a isolated lock made by a inventive native craftsman.

Nagawarrior · 1st October 2007, 04:38 AM

Here's mine. I've had this one for years and just love it. Enjoy.
Stephen

Jim McDougall · 1st October 2007, 06:28 AM

Nice grouping Nagawarrior!!!!

Nagawarrior · 1st October 2007, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Nice grouping Nagawarrior!!!!

Thank you!

29th September 2007, 09:41 PM	#1
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Vietnamese Flintlock This is a good example of a typical Montenyard gun. The lock on all of these is detachable. octangle barrel,silver barrel bands. Some of the later versions of this rifle use aluminum barrel bands and were shooting previously fired m16 rounds. These were still in active production and use into the early 1970's. The lock I find interesting different form than any other culture I have seen. Attached Images

30th September 2007, 12:11 AM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I believe it was fired from check. slightly different culture but same idea Attached Images

30th September 2007, 02:55 AM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Here are closups of lock 2 position. the cord is used to pull the hammer. a sticky glue holds the flint on.a piece of deer skin between the hammer and pan acts as a safety.There are 3 springs one for the cocking mechanism. The other for the strike plate and a small one to put tension on trigger.The large piece of deer skin covers the whole mechanism to keep rain out of it.starting in the 1960's they started using a form of cap gun caps in the primer pans. I have talked to a number of vietnam vets who saw these guns in use. this particular example is probaly 1900-1950.this type as far as I aware was used from 1850-1970's Attached Images Last edited by ward; 30th September 2007 at 03:15 AM.

30th September 2007, 05:58 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Ward What you think wasn't my intent, by no means I know it is an authentic piece, if that is what you are referring. It was a figure of speech. How to say in other words ? It is so crude, so gentilic, so unortodox, so not industrial like, so wild, so ethnographic, so naíve looking, that it looks unreal ... not untrue. I hope this eliminates any doubt. fernando Last edited by fernando; 30th September 2007 at 06:38 PM.

30th September 2007, 06:15 PM	#11
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	No offense taken just did not know what you meant. I did not think you meant anything negative. All I was trying to convey was this not a isolated lock made by a inventive native craftsman. Last edited by ward; 1st October 2007 at 12:03 AM.

29th September 2007, 10:10 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	I had something very similar. The barrel was from a 19th century Belgian sporting gun. The barrel had originally been bound to the stock with rattan, which had been replaced with aluminium. These are more like a big pistol or I would think fired from the hip. Fascinating things, I wish I had kept mine now but you live and learn. Rather like the very first guns in the early medieval period.

30th September 2007, 01:46 AM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A great piece, Ward. Could you some time post pictures with different positions ? maybe the action becomes more clear ? Thanks fernando

30th September 2007, 02:15 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Very interesting weapon! Shows clearly that a weapon need not be 'old' to be a unique ethnographic example and outstanding perspective in a collection. The various tribes known collectively as Montagnards were truly amazing warriors. Thank you for posting this Ward.

30th September 2007, 10:14 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Great picture. Do you think the pistol grip type could be used that way? rather them than me.

30th September 2007, 01:38 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Fascinating. It looks unreal.

30th September 2007, 03:15 PM	#9
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I think either by the check or maybe holding a foot from face.This gun uses solid bullets not shot. shot weapons such as shotguns or blunderbusses are the only weapons I know of that are fired from hip. You would need to sight down the barrel to aim. Fernando I do not understand Unreal. This is not a unique piece. There are more of this type in the market scarce but out there

1st October 2007, 04:38 AM	#12
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	Here's mine. I've had this one for years and just love it. Enjoy. Stephen

1st October 2007, 06:28 AM	#13
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Nice grouping Nagawarrior!!!!