Spanish Sword?

ALEX · 20th June 2007, 12:17 PM

I assume it is Spanish. After seeing pictures of a nimcha posted by Tatjana, I've noticed the similarity in a form of the quillions. This sword has two turned quillion ends which are connected together in a fashion which suggests a hanging loop. Perhaps it is for something else. The sword is someway heavy. I can not even guess it's age, authenticity and even a name for it:-) would appreciate any comments about this sword.

ariel · 20th June 2007, 01:28 PM

Yes, you are likely correct.
The old Moresque swords in Spain had down-turned quillons; I guess Nimcha is a descendant of this tradition.
Interestingly, old variant of Omani Kattaras had similar quillons, too.

RSWORD · 20th June 2007, 02:24 PM

This is most likely a late 19th century sword, probably made in Spain, that is done in imitation of I believe 15th century swords. I have often heard of this style of sword referred to as "El Cid".

carlos · 20th June 2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

This is most likely a late 19th century sword, probably made in Spain, that is done in imitation of I believe 15th century swords. I have often heard of this style of sword referred to as "El Cid".

PROBABLY FIRST OF THE 20TH CENTURY. TOLEDO IS PLENTY OF THIS TYPE OF SWORDS, LIKE THE SWORD OF THE CID.
REGARDS
CARLOS

ALEX · 20th June 2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlos

PROBABLY FIRST OF THE 20TH CENTURY. ...

Thanks to all. Based on your comments, the heavy weight of the sword, it's quite unbalanced feel and crude workmanship, it is most probably a 20th cent replica.

Jim McDougall · 20th June 2007, 06:35 PM

Agree with all, this is indeed a decorative representation of the early Hispano-Moresque 'jinetas' of the period ascribed to 'El Cid', a most colorful history! As Ariel has noted, the fashion of these certainly did influence many weapons through the centuries, and it is always interesting that traditional style is often so fervently held in developing forms, from the dramatic to subtle examples.

Best regards,
Jim

Marc · 26th June 2007, 12:57 PM

Well, kinda...

This is a reproduction of the so-called "El Cid" sword, "Tizona", that was up until very recently in the Army Museum in Madrid. It's one of the most reproduced exemplars by the Toledo industry of decorative swords.
The original is a 15th c. sword of Iberian style, nothing to do with the hispano-moresque swords of the same period, sometimes indeed called "jinetas".
Some discussion about this typology can be found HERE.
The sword pictured in a red background is in fact the original for the one discussed here.

Andrew · 26th June 2007, 02:54 PM

My parents had one of these Toledo swords hanging in our home when I was a small child. I recall sneaking it down and going on crusades around the house.

My father was never pleased with the chips in the rebated blade (nor at the damage to the trees in the back yard.

).

Jim McDougall · 26th June 2007, 04:49 PM

Hi Marc,
Thank you for the clarification, and especially to the link to that outstanding thread!!! Apparantly I need to brush up on these so the notes help a lot!!

Andrew LOL! So you were a Crusader....I always had the Zorro thing goin' on

Uh, same resulting damages not pleasing to parents .

All the best,
Jim

Rick · 26th June 2007, 04:58 PM

It now becomes obvious that this addiction of ours starts in childhood .

Marc · 26th June 2007, 05:15 PM

Hey, Jim, truth to be told, it seemed quite strange to me that you didn't say anything in that thread...

Jim McDougall · 26th June 2007, 06:04 PM

Hi Marc,
Actually have been incredibly preoccupied with pressing matters of late, so level of participation way down....definitely not from lack of interest, as you know I consider Spanish sword history fascinating. I entirely missed that thread, and I always learn a great deal from your posts, so thank you again for the link.
All the very best,
Jim

20th June 2007, 12:17 PM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Spanish Sword? I assume it is Spanish. After seeing pictures of a nimcha posted by Tatjana, I've noticed the similarity in a form of the quillions. This sword has two turned quillion ends which are connected together in a fashion which suggests a hanging loop. Perhaps it is for something else. The sword is someway heavy. I can not even guess it's age, authenticity and even a name for it:-) would appreciate any comments about this sword. Attached Images

26th June 2007, 04:58 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Confession of a Child Pirate It now becomes obvious that this addiction of ours starts in childhood .

20th June 2007, 01:28 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yes, you are likely correct. The old Moresque swords in Spain had down-turned quillons; I guess Nimcha is a descendant of this tradition. Interestingly, old variant of Omani Kattaras had similar quillons, too.

20th June 2007, 02:24 PM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	This is most likely a late 19th century sword, probably made in Spain, that is done in imitation of I believe 15th century swords. I have often heard of this style of sword referred to as "El Cid".

20th June 2007, 06:35 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Agree with all, this is indeed a decorative representation of the early Hispano-Moresque 'jinetas' of the period ascribed to 'El Cid', a most colorful history! As Ariel has noted, the fashion of these certainly did influence many weapons through the centuries, and it is always interesting that traditional style is often so fervently held in developing forms, from the dramatic to subtle examples. Best regards, Jim

26th June 2007, 12:57 PM	#7
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Well, kinda... This is a reproduction of the so-called "El Cid" sword, "Tizona", that was up until very recently in the Army Museum in Madrid. It's one of the most reproduced exemplars by the Toledo industry of decorative swords. The original is a 15th c. sword of Iberian style, nothing to do with the hispano-moresque swords of the same period, sometimes indeed called "jinetas". Some discussion about this typology can be found HERE. The sword pictured in a red background is in fact the original for the one discussed here.

26th June 2007, 02:54 PM	#8
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	My parents had one of these Toledo swords hanging in our home when I was a small child. I recall sneaking it down and going on crusades around the house. My father was never pleased with the chips in the rebated blade (nor at the damage to the trees in the back yard. ).

26th June 2007, 04:49 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Hi Marc, Thank you for the clarification, and especially to the link to that outstanding thread!!! Apparantly I need to brush up on these so the notes help a lot!! Andrew LOL! So you were a Crusader....I always had the Zorro thing goin' on Uh, same resulting damages not pleasing to parents . All the best, Jim

26th June 2007, 05:15 PM	#11
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Hey, Jim, truth to be told, it seemed quite strange to me that you didn't say anything in that thread...

26th June 2007, 06:04 PM	#12
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Hi Marc, Actually have been incredibly preoccupied with pressing matters of late, so level of participation way down....definitely not from lack of interest, as you know I consider Spanish sword history fascinating. I entirely missed that thread, and I always learn a great deal from your posts, so thank you again for the link. All the very best, Jim